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Post by XombieMike on Sept 30, 2016 8:29:59 GMT -6
JeffCross I must commend you for that rainbow text.
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JeffCross
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Post by JeffCross on Sept 30, 2016 8:37:50 GMT -6
JeffCross I must commend you for that rainbow text. yeah that took awhile lol... (ouchie... the hand cramps...)
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Post by CastleDan on Sept 30, 2016 8:42:04 GMT -6
There's only ONE shameless rip off spell i'd love to see in some way or form. A special button input for a Dark Metamorphosis. I want her to yell something, glow, and blood or whatever comes out of enemies gives her a bit of health.
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JeffCross
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Post by JeffCross on Sept 30, 2016 9:05:43 GMT -6
There's only ONE shameless rip off spell i'd love to see in some way or form. A special button input for a Dark Metamorphosis. I want her to yell something, glow, and blood or whatever comes out of enemies gives her a bit of health. I agree it could be called: vampire's hunger, bloody heal, transfusion... or something and blood spattering on the player will heal them. Though I think glowing red might be going too far... maybe the player can start with a white glow then whatever color splatters onto the person, the glow turns to that color, until a different colored blood splatters on the player (and so on and so forth).
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2016 10:31:18 GMT -6
I mean, just look at the gif. He's like literally a rainbow for nearly half of those frames. So... giant lizards drunk on wine leave rainbow aftershadows when you smack them around? I'd watch a documentary on that topic.
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Post by Galamoth on Sept 30, 2016 10:56:06 GMT -6
I mean, just look at the gif. He's like literally a rainbow for nearly half of those frames. So... giant lizards drunk on wine leave rainbow aftershadows when you smack them around? I'd watch a documentary on that topic. You know, I think that totally should be part of a certain special-input attack for a late-game weapon that Miriam can use! ...After Miriam spills wine on her weapon. It could even have a " Salamander"-esque flame trail effect, complete with rainbow flames. I see I've successfully spread the rainbow to JeffCross (Now we can both have Perfect Hair Forever.)
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purifyweirdshard
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Sept 30, 2016 12:15:35 GMT -6
Wow guys. There's a lot of rainbow in here. It's feeling like I'm in a Dio album.
JeffCross , those input ideas for different weapons ARE GREAT. Those examples make sense very well thematically for how the weapons are held and used: Single-hand sword: shorter weapon, less travel on the swing, so simple quarter circle Two-handed sword: Much longer travel overhead swing, so half circle up sounds good, so long as this does become awkward for input overlap Katana: Travels fairly far from unsheathing from down to up, so regular half circle makes sense Raiper/thrust: dp motion/623/shoryuken makes sense here because that motion feels like you're hitting a precise "point" as it's executed after a short dance between forward and down - a nice idea for a precise thrusting weapon
Same could be said for the others. Thanks for bringing that up, would like to add that to the submission, but haha we're pretty long already...maybe a "suggested input examples" spot, complete with less desirables? (i.e. pretzels, mash moves imo, etc)
As far as a Bloodstained-style Dark Metamorphosis, perhaps instead a buff mode that restores health from things related to crystals. During that, the crystal flower candle drops restore bits of health instead of MP, shards restore large amounts and when fighting a "crystalline" enemy type, they may chip off from them bit by bit similar to blood. Crystal golems, dragons, Spectral Sword, crystal skeletons, certain crystal bosses perhaps...
edit: Oh, and Pure Miriam , we kind of touched on this before, but I personally feel that SotN's level of spell usefulness wasn't entirely a bad thing. They weren't especially necessary or required in any way, but that itself offset the problem that some people had doing them. If you really struggle with any sorts of inputs, it actually didn't matter all that much since you could safely ignore them. Perhaps a good idea to expand on this is the possibility to upgrade or improve them in some way, like through uses in Despair or the crafting system. That way, if you like to/can do them reliably, you can upgrade those, or instead focus on upgrading other things like more of a variety of weapons. The accessory/shard idea for simplifying inputs would help here as well.
They were more meaningful in Richter mode for the dagger rush, but that's an extra kind of hardcore mode as it is.
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Post by crocodile on Sept 30, 2016 15:41:25 GMT -6
- The point you make about "A main issue with the difficulty of motions in SotN is likely from how the input interpreter was coded in-game rather than so much the actual motions themselves, as noted by speedrunners such as mecharichter and romscout during streams and marathons" is accurate but I'm unclear what exactly you want to communicate to IGA. Just be careful to not do that again? I think a better way to work that would be to say:
-Make sure the buffer for inputs is lenient and that the game can read your inputs well and clearly - avoid if you can some of the inaccurate inputs and wonky programming of the past like in SOTN
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Hopefully this input is useful? Again I think you hit all the points but I would want to be more concise and change the tone and nature of the voice used (so it comes off more as polite suggestions than just observational). As an aside, when you say:
"narrative crystal stuff"
Are you just speaking to yourself or are you trying to say something to IGA? It's not clear to me. If the former, I wouldn't include that in any Design Review Request.
Thanks, croc. Yep, that's what I was trying to communicate with my "wooooords" statement lol, I figured it could all be somewhat more concise one way or the other. I'll answer a few of your questions on things:
What I wanted to communicate to IGA in that first quoted bit, I'm trying to directly address what he had voiced previously about folks having problems or issue with SotN's inputs specifically. I wanted to highlight something that most likely did not realize at the time they played it and still wouldn't, that their issue was likely at least partially related to how they were implemented/read rather than the motions themselves. I didn't specifically go into "make sure they're good" because that's certainly implied by bringing it up and feels somewhat patronizing for me to do personally. That's just how I feel, though, and that would also largely explain why some of this sounds a bit more observational. That said, I think a piece at the end to communicate the specific suggestion is a good idea ;p
Regarding the narrative and all that, no I'm not talking to myself lol. That one certainly moves away from the field of observation, doesn't it? Haha, I just thought it may be a useful thought to consider seeing as one might take a step back and look at this to think "wait, we already have this robust shard system, why do we even need a secondary system for doing attacks?". Having some manner of in-game or narrative-related explanation for why these things are separate or necessary could be useful/nice as opposed to them being in the game just because "they were in my other game and people like it a lot". It's also just something I thought was cool that I thought of obviously, so there's that.
Another observational thing...I think the results themselves were likely skewed in some degree away from favoring the more difficult SotN motions because of how the game took the inputs, so that's mostly why I wanted to call attention to that with the bold statement. I think that with improved input reading and maybe even the accessory option, that 38% would be a good bit higher.
Because after all...if we're making this a thing, we will need a decent variety of different motions, including some on the tougher side, to be able to include more things we can do. I have an urge to make this a bullet, too, oh no...
IMPORTANT THINGS START HERE?: I took some of your suggestions and removed two bullets (redundancy for "simple only" since directional shards are already in and different inputs are basically confirmed, removed "none/other" for mostly lack of relevance), shortened a few other bullets and also appended a statement here or there for clarity:
- With 100 votes by 78 respondents over about 6 months, we have an opinion of 84% in favor of the return of special attacks with at least quarter circle or "back to forward" complexity
- Of those that do not mind directional and button input special attacks, 23% of total votes/~38% of those in favor of the specials were in favor also of more difficult motions such as half circles
- A main issue with the difficulty of motions in SotN is likely from how the input interpreter was coded in-game rather than so much the actual motions themselves, as noted by speedrunners such as mecharichter and romscout during streams and marathons. One approach would be to improve the buffer for inputs in regards to leniency, but also that the game can read your inputs well and clearly
- It will be important, if these input abilities are included, to not overlap too much with other actions to interfere with platforming and dodging that could hamper the experience. Mind given to control overlap, input priority, and the aforementioned input interpreter concerns could alleviate this issue greatly
- It was felt that some degree of natural correlation and intuitiveness between the attack's action and what its input is would be favorable
- Trying out different input motions to find a weapon's "hidden" attack/trying to find spells in SotN after acquiring something new was a great joy for many players and some of our most memorable moments
- A concession I had considered, as a means of simplifying motions for those that would rather not have to use them, the game could have in it an equipable accessory (or shard) that allows direction + button for these attacks, at the cost of using an accessory/shard slot. It would have utility for those that can do the motions as is, too, though, as it could allow grounded actions to be done in the air for new attack/mobility options (i.e. SotN attacks as an example, forward + R1 could perform a mid-air Alucard Sword special, or a mid-air Hellfire teleport for additional jump distance and invincibility)
- Speculation by myself, if this "different" category of attacks needs a spot to fill in the narrative, some of these actions could be the attacks mentioned early on in the Kickstarter, such as "Voltic Chain" which was specifically described as "not a demonic ability". These seemed to me to originate directly from Miriam/her back crystal itself rather than external demonic abilities, and most were crystal or glass-like in origin (the wine glass, throne, chains) - could this mean she produces a crystalline substance to a degree, as also would be evidenced by concept art of stained glass-appearing weapons? Could this Iceman-like production be related to crafting then, as well? (narrative relation/plausibility)
I think I'm happy with it now. Appreciate the thoughts, and good to know I wasn't off base much. As far as the tone and further succinct touches, I will defer that to Mana 's discretion. Don't hesitate to ask me/us if something is confusing if you decide to forward these things, Mana! I think even with a better input system than SOTN that some would be apprehensive or resistant to particularly complex inputs. As a big FGC guy yourself, I'm sure you come across casuals that freak out at anything harder than a hadoken. I'm also someone who has some experience with FGs and I can't say in good faith that something like 720s or "pretzel" motions have any place in this game regardless of how well the game can read inputs. So I do think its important to stress the input programming for Bloodstained needs to be spot on but I don't know if that would alleviate enough people's concerns to push for harder inputs. I know personally I much preferred that Super Jumping with Richter in POR required only a button press whereas in SOTN you needed to do an down-up motion. The later isn't "hard" per say but it is extra work and dexterity I don't feel was worthwhile. Even though I'm in support of Special Inputs, I don't think Bloodstained would benefit for doing things exactly the way SOTN did. As for narrative justifications for the special moves, if that's what you meant than I can get behind that. You could easily say she learned marital art moves from like scrolls or spells from magic tomes. If you want to go with shards you can say the shards of demons imprinted their memories on her. I don't think it would be hard to do at all
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Post by Galamoth on Sept 30, 2016 18:17:44 GMT -6
Since I'm actually most enthusiastic about Spears being an available weapon-type in Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night, let's see if I can try coming up with plausible special-input commands... Let's try Gungnir, the lightning spear of Odin , as an example first. In addition to the proposed back+ forward for generic Spear special attacks, why not double-tap forward or hold ("charge") attack button then release after double-tap? The result would either be a beam of elemental (lightning) energy, OR a lightning-fast triple pierce. Now for a more "mundane" spear-like weapon (pole-arm), like a halberd or naginata. A spear with an attached axe-blade or with a long single-edged blade might have a special input-command representing an overhead strike. A semi-circle input overhead. Otherwise, a "Shoryuken" input might simply result in multiple thrusts of the spear (2 or 3 maybe). ADDENDUM: purifyweirdshard Ooh nice! You acknowledged my Crystal Golem enemy idea! (Albeit inspired by a glorious piece of artwork I found via Google Image Search) No rainbow this time... Unless all of you want more.
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JeffCross
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Post by JeffCross on Sept 30, 2016 18:46:47 GMT -6
wow Galamoth that must have taken awhile to do... my hand started cramping up by the time I was almost done (using a touch pad not a mouse)... so kudos to you my friend for spreading the rainbow and I like your inputs for the spear... I think there should be many types of inputs for different weapons especially for more powerful weapons. And thanks purifyweirdshard though I think I would like to fix one of the inputs... the gun seems too hard why not just a charge button... I was thinking a full-circle motion for the whip... but I have problems with the full-circle inputs... that is why I changed it. I wanted the forward, forward+attack to be the gun input but I needed something for the whip ^^;
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BloodyTears92
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Post by BloodyTears92 on Oct 2, 2016 15:41:21 GMT -6
My reception to the return of command inputs was not very positive I have to say, though there are a lot of ways this could go and I'll outline my thoughts on each.
1. Special Command spells on top of the Shard System. This is the one I'm the most adverse too. There's just so little I could see working as an additional command that isnt just a shard, and it makes me fearful of "feature overload". Now, if the commands were explicitly for big badass ultimate moves, and not basic spells, I would not be adverse to that. But don't tell me to make a Hadoken for a fireball. Just make that a bullet shard and be done with it. I know some people want as many spells on hand as conceivably possible, but I'm not one of them.
2. The Special Commands are not separate, and there are simply powerful shards that require inputs to use. I could see this working just fine, and would not have a problem with them. If I equip Gebel's shard and input a command to use his big ultimate move, that would be cool.
3. The Special Inputs are for weapon moves, not spells at all. Again, I would not be adverse to having a simple command execution for say, a huge greatsword slam, or a cool AOE whip spin. That would add a fun new dimension to the core combat without destroying it like a full combo system would.
4. They take a page from Ricther and Jonathan, giving Miriam command-input martial moves. If they want to give us strong boot-options and commands to turn Miriam into a Gothic Lolita Kenshiro, I'm all on board for that.
Above all else I want them to actually be useful and strong. I'm just not on board with the idea of "having Tetra Spirit just to have is fine because its cool".
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Post by LeoLeWolferoux on Oct 2, 2016 23:18:01 GMT -6
So... giant lizards drunk on wine leave rainbow aftershadows when you smack them around? I'd watch a documentary on that topic. You know, I think that totally should be part of a certain special-input attack for a late-game weapon that Miriam can use! ...After Miriam spills wine on her weapon. It could even have a " Salamander"-esque flame trail effect, complete with rainbow flames. _amy I see I've successfully spread the rainbow to JeffCross :D (Now we can both have Perfect Hair Forever.) W-what...did I just witness...? ...anyway. I wonder if the other characters will have special imputs as well? Gawd I hope so...!
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Pure Miriam
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Post by Pure Miriam on Oct 3, 2016 1:52:05 GMT -6
My reception to the return of command inputs was not very positive I have to say, though there are a lot of ways this could go and I'll outline my thoughts on each. 1. Special Command spells on top of the Shard System. This is the one I'm the most adverse too. There's just so little I could see working as an additional command that isnt just a shard, and it makes me fearful of "feature overload". Now, if the commands were explicitly for big badass ultimate moves, and not basic spells, I would not be adverse to that. But don't tell me to make a Hadoken for a fireball. Just make that a bullet shard and be done with it. I know some people want as many spells on hand as conceivably possible, but I'm not one of them. (...) I agree with you. The Shard system is a robust magic system, based on Soul Dominance (aria/Dawn of Sorrow) and Glyph Art (Order of Ecclesia). The Shard system alone should be enough to cover almost all possibilites on spells and powers. Adding command inputs can make everything a little redundant and overloaded with useless powers. I'm not against command input, but i think they should be more reserved to basic weapon specials. (...) 2. The Special Commands are not separate, and there are simply powerful shards that require inputs to use. I could see this working just fine, and would not have a problem with them. If I equip Gebel's shard and input a command to use his big ultimate move, that would be cool. (...) I think that wouldn't be very good. I mean, you need to: 1) equip a particular Shard 2) figure out that it has a input 3) make a input with that particular shard equipped. It sounds a little too overwhelming for a gameplay that tries to be simple and intuitive. But it could work, yeah. (...) 3. The Special Inputs are for weapon moves, not spells at all. Again, I would not be adverse to having a simple command execution for say, a huge greatsword slam, or a cool AOE whip spin. That would add a fun new dimension to the core combat without destroying it like a full combo system would. (...) I agree with you tottaly. (...) 4. They take a page from Ricther and Jonathan, giving Miriam command-input martial moves. If they want to give us strong boot-options and commands to turn Miriam into a Gothic Lolita Kenshiro, I'm all on board for that. Above all else I want them to actually be useful and strong. I'm just not on board with the idea of "having Tetra Spirit just to have is fine because its cool". That's what i said before. Alucard had a whole bunch of totally useless spells. Shard System has a big potential of having a lot of useless magic too, but i can acept that due to the huge diversity and variety that this sytem can offer. That is not the case for inputs, so, having useless spells on inputs, with the useless magic that is bound to exist on the Shard System...That is not a good idea either.
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Post by JeffCross on Oct 3, 2016 10:38:27 GMT -6
Yeah... where do I start? hey BloodyTears92 and Pure Miriam nice opinions here is mine 1) I don't think a few spells will make everything over complicated... I am not one of those that wants a hundred spells. Oh and many of the souls and abilities from AoS were watered down versions of spell and abilities Alucard had... so instead of turning them into shards they could be spells like they were meant to be. 2) I agree with Pure Miriam about this point. 3) I do think that is a possibility but I hope not. 4) I understand you guys want over the top spells that does crazy damage... but what about the people who cannot do those moves... the reason Alucard's spells were kinda ordinary, in my opinion, was because if the spells did something super or awesome, those who could not do those input commands would feel like they were missing out on part of the game. So I think Miriam should have a few spells we need to figure out and a couple she needs to find... I think there should be a way to level up the spells but not make them overpowered (cool looking but not hugely powerful). I think like in SotN it should be just an extra thing you can do. Same with the weapons... again like SotN there was no overpowered weapons (well at least not through input commands lol) but the fun of the input commands were seeing what those weapons could do... most really didn't do a whole lot (though getting a rapier early in the game made things easier).
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BloodyTears92
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Post by BloodyTears92 on Oct 3, 2016 15:41:00 GMT -6
But what is the point of throwing in mechanics you don't need? None of Alucard's spells were very good, so throwing out the inputs to do them was such a waste of time. You could clear the entire game without ever even knowing the game has a magic system, and even if you did know, maybe 2 spells were somewhat useful, like Soul Steal. Sure, Dark Metamorphosis was cool from a thematic standpoint but is it too much to ask that the effect of a spell be, well, effective? ESPECIALLY in Bloodstained, where I can just press 1 button to use a spell? Why should I have to use a multi-input command to use Dark Metamorphosis when the game's primary system should simply having me press the Right Trigger to activate it?
Almost every time I go back to SOTN I completely ignore the spell system, and I don't like that you can forget it even exists. I consider it a genuine flaw with the game that all these thematic vampire spells can just be ignored or used entirely "for cool factor". The only thing I give it, is that in SOTN it worked better because Alucard didn't have the Soul Dominance or Glyph Systems, so the spells added a lot more than the base melee and subweapons (on paper at least) But Bloodstained? A game that already has the most expansive magic system the franchise has ever seen? Brand new directional input spells and a firearm+ammunition system that have never been seen in IGA's games before? Do we really need MORE?
If we get multi-input magic on top of the Shard spell system and the weapon combat, at LEAST do something to make them noticeably different from anything in the Shard system. Give me a GOOD reason to input a Hadoken command.
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Post by Pure Miriam on Oct 4, 2016 1:46:42 GMT -6
I tend to agree with BloodyTears92 . I'm going to give my particular opinion about Special Attacks and Inputs to make everything clear. BLOODSTAINED: RITUAL OF THE NIGHT WILL SURELY HAVE MORE THAN A HUNDRED SPELLS
Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night will have the Shard System. Most enemies of the game will give you a Shard containing a spell and we already have insights of Shards outside enemies. Aria of Sorrow, a 2003 game had over 100 different spells. Bloodstained will be a huge game, most probably with a bigger bestiary. We can sure assume that it will have much more than 100 Shards to collect. Bloodstained will also feature some kind of Sets, where you can create Sets of equipment and Shards to change in real time, so you can have acess to a lot of Shards at the same time. Considering they added Inputs, i'm sure the game will also have basic specials for weapons too. All that combined makes a huge and robust magic and attack system, where you will have countless ways of playing, attacking and killing your foes. Considering that scenario, special inputs sounds useless and overwhelming. What can you possibly add on top of all that i just said, that can make those special inputs in anyway useful and not redundant?BLOODSTAINED: RITUAL OF THE NIGHT WILL HAVE A FORGING SYSTEM AND A ROBUST WEAPON SELECTION
Considering the game will have a forging system and a big weapon roster, we can safely assume that they are aiming for more or less the same weapon diversity of Symphony of the Night. Iga said that the game will not be as equipment dependant as Symphony of the Night was, but it will have a big weapon selection. That, and special inputs for weapons adds already another layer of attacks and skills into the game, combined with the Shard System. BLOODSTAINED: RITUAL OF THE NIGHT WILL HAVE A TACTICAL SPELL TYPE: THE DIRECTIONAL SHARD
Iga focused on his last interview, on how important the Directional Shard is. It is a tactical spell type, and the game will have puzzles and gimmicks where the player will need to direct his powers around. The ability to control the direction of your spell is something new for 2d Igavania games and that, alone, already gives a new layer of skillfull gameplay and variety. SPECIAL ATTACKS AND INPUTS ON SYMPHONY OF THE NIGHT WAS ALMOST ALL USELESS
The only game that used this as the main character's attack system was Symphony of the Night. All Alucard spells were useless, save for maybe one or two. You can beat the game without ever using any of them. After Symphony, absolutely no other Igavania ever used that, and instead created a bunch of other creative magic and spell systems. I fail to see how, in a game that will surely have more than a hundred different spells, any kind of input system will work without ALSO being rendered useless. CLOSING COMMENTS
Considering all i said, i don't think Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night needs a Input system at all. I think that basic specials for weapons is a really good idea, but that's it. I'm not against it, i just think it will be rendered useless and will be put aside by most players, unless they force that out by creating somehow mandatory places where you need to use inputs to survive or keep going, wich will be a design flaw, or they come out with something entirely new that none of us was able to think yet, wich would be a pleasant surprise.
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Galamoth
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Post by Galamoth on Oct 4, 2016 6:16:09 GMT -6
To summarize what I've said before: I'm all for Weapons having 1 or 2 special-input commands in addition to their normal attacks. ( Not every single weapon needs one, however. The development team need not waste their time making extra animations for more weapons than those which make sense to have "special attacks".) In agreement with BloodyTears92 and others above, I don't think any Spell or Ability that comes from Shards really needs special-input commands. I'm almost certain that every single Ability gained from Shards would require nothing more complex than a single button press, and in the case of Directional Shards, simply holding the D-Pad (or Analog Stick) in the required direction(s) before the button press. ^ (It's been a good while since I last played the Demo, so I don't remember if the traditional "subweapon" UP+Attack command is required for using a certain type of Shard. Is it?) Perhaps Miriam will have a few unique moves outside of Weapons & Shard spells/abilities ( not counting the proposed 7th "Voltic" ability or " Winestained") that may require special-input commands. I'd prefer that they are useful in some manner, even if it's just against certain enemy types.
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Pure Miriam
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Post by Pure Miriam on Oct 4, 2016 10:03:59 GMT -6
(...)(It's been a good while since I last played the Demo, so I don't remember if the traditional "subweapon" UP+Attack command is required for using a certain type of Shard. Is it?) Not yet. Trigger Shard is used by pressing Y (triangle on PS), Direction Shard is used by aiming with the right analog stick and pressing RB (R1 on PS). Enchant Shard has no command. Both Effective Shard and Familiar Shard wasn't showed on Demo, so, we don't know what their inputs are. But UP+ATTACK could surely be the Effective Shard (i doubt it would be for Familiar). I didn't thought on that. Good guess!
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purifyweirdshard
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Oct 4, 2016 12:21:18 GMT -6
Wow, things blew up here while I was gone for the weekend...these things were confirmed and everyone got into a tizzy, lol. We've talked about these same things before, but just to be clear on what I think is going on here/what the focus I think should be:
I really don't think we're looking at the existing shard system having these inputs. As we can see from playing the demo, yeah, it would be unnecessary because there are already simple controls in place to use those. I don't think we should worry about that, going on about how it's pointless and useless, etc, since that's not what we're really looking at from what I can tell. This will probably be for weapons and any possible innate abilities Miriam has like Voltic Chain/those others from the special moves update last year. They -could- use special inputs for certain shards, and I think that would be fine, as I'm sure there'd be many other ones that didn't use such inputs that would be favorable for different players.
It's not totally fair to pick on specifically Alucard's spells as being unnecessary because honestly, you could also completely ignore other entire systems, like the subweapons and familiars. How often did you think to yourself, "Oh man, I need to get x subweapon for this boss!", "Where's the Bibuti?!" ...more like, "...wait, what even was the Bibuti? I don't remember that..." So many options were put into the game just for the sake of having a fun variety, as often back then we weren't so worried about what was the best. So many little things that were in SotN were not strong, but were almost enhanced in endearment because of it. They put a lot of work into making something like the Sword of Dawn specifically, extra sprites and animations and programming...all for what? Because it was a really unique, artistic touch that they thought of and put it in the game because they loved what they were doing.
That's the most beautiful thing about these games, imo, just the amazing variety of ideas that the developers were able to get into the game. It's not a seriously hard or competitive experience, so I don't think exclusion of their creations and ideas for the sake of a more balanced by limitation gameplay environment. At their core, these games are about exploration and discovery, finding new things and trying them. If we're scared of anything, imo it shouldn't be more stuff.
The plethora of (mostly bad) options in SotN didn't and doesn't make it a bad game, and now we're looking at the possibility that in Bloodstained we could have many of those same options plus the ability to improve or upgrade them as we wish, be it weapons and/or magic/abilities.
As far as making the command input moves good enough to warrant your effort in executing them, I've talked about this before too, but that could be a risky proposition. If those attacks are in general just better than everything else because they require motions, where does that leave the folks that struggle with them? They will be behind, and will quickly know it from reading around on the internet. That's bordering on something of an exclusion of potential fans, so if the best moves in the game are "motion" moves, then it should be more or less because that player buffed up that weapon or ability to be that way, or built their gear and playstyle otherwise around it rather than it just being "do the move". Someone else could pick up a baby Claimh Solais and take their crafting down that path, that weapon being strong with just its basic attacks. However, perhaps that weapon deals partly "holy" and cut damage and some important enemies are resistant to both (I was going to say wind with Crissaegrim, but wind's not in these games haha)
One of the two weapons would likely be at least somewhat objectively "better" than the other, but these games shouldn't be about that. We're exploring a castle and finding out what little bits of love IGA and his team were able to leave in there for us to find. There should be a pretty decent challenge along the way. Worst case, we have several options to have a different, more difficult experience.
edit: Oh! One other thing I believe crocodile brought up, nah, I was specifically thinking about motions like pretzels when I mentioned "unfavorable" motions. Very few people want to have to do those in a game like this, ever. 720s? Probably not. Maybe just something incredibly situational and infrequent and again, not required/necessarily very strong without adjustment on the player's part (crafts, shard/gear loadouts, etc).
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dragonkd
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Post by dragonkd on Oct 4, 2016 15:19:22 GMT -6
putting in my two cents, im fine with MOST of it. the same combos <>, >>, quarter, half, and full circles are fine, basically anything in portrait of ruin as well, the overly large inputs in sotn spells other than hellfire and dark metamorphosis are not. on another note, when my testing set of 360 and xone controllers come in I will be upgrading APART's entire input procedure, and I will be adding a input buffer to allow for multi inputs later down the line. these, ofcourse, will be easter eggs, and will -well fudge. one of them just came in the mail. anyway, and will help with gameplay, but you wont need them to survive. atleast not before NG+
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