Astaroth
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Post by Astaroth on Mar 4, 2016 15:42:36 GMT -6
Hmm, like the idea of the attic (ugh spiders though), but i could see that being more of a few rooms incorporated into each of the areas like 'these are storage rooms hidden off the main path' filled with boxes and some maybe containing easter eggs like discarded assets ('broken' furniture, half finished paintings, that sort of thing), injokes, or even clues to other areas in the game >3>
Bg interactivity could also be things like sitting in chairs or listening to confession >P
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Post by CastleDan on Mar 4, 2016 15:44:53 GMT -6
Hmm, like the idea of the attic (ugh spiders though), but i could see that more being more of a few rooms incorporated into each of the areas like 'these are storage rooms hidden off the main path' filled with boxes and some maybe containing easter eggs like discarded assets ('broken' furniture, half finished paintings, that sort of thing), injokes, or even clues to other areas in the game >3> Bg interactivity could also be things like sitting in chairs or listening to confession >P Yeah, background interactivity is basically saying MORE of that. More than their ever has been. A dedicated button to interact with things within the background. Some paintings might have a bubble description of what it is or what Miriam thinks of it. Etc.... It's a way to make the environment even more of a character. I wish I knew where that topic or comment was.. it was a cool idea I was fleshing out with people. Go to a window click it... " I can hear a wolf howling outside"
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Post by crocodile on Mar 4, 2016 17:45:18 GMT -6
I'm not gonna lie, that was way too long for me to read... About overlap and redundant items, I don't think it's fair to combine one person's idea with another person's. Everyone should have an equal opportunity for their idea to be elevated even if it's oddly specific. If you look at the source threads each item comes from a specific suggestion. Many of the first ones come from Ravenspear and are simply a list. Others are too hard to simply and make it difficult to fit in a tweet long sentence. That's why source material links are referenced. Getting everyone to vote in three different polls might be an OK idea,but if it can be handled in one, shouldn't it? I mean, with reference it's not so bad. I mean, I put a "Too Long Didn't Read" section at the end for a reason Anyway, with regards to overlap and redundancy, my intention isn't to deny people their voice. It just is a matter of fact that using the least amount of words to express your thoughts in the clearest, most succinct way possible is just good writing. I think this is exasperated here since things have to be translated. Sending multiple lines of text that essentially say the same thing (and be translated) isn't super useful IMO. There's also the issue of independent variables - having like 4 "Grounds" options becomes confusing (since it can be hard to discern the difference between the ones we have listed), you don't want to have a category and then a sub-set of that category (Factory vs Watch-Making Factory) in the same poll since they are dependent on each other, etc. I just think employing methodologies that go into good poll making is a good thing to do here. Also, the more specific you are, the harder it is to accommodate and incorporate suggestions into the creation of a product - especially when we are talking about the relatively broad concept of level design as discussed across the internet. I think stuff like weapons or enemies allow more leeway to be more specific since we are often talking about such a small, discrete element of the game at that point. This is all in contrast to actual critiques where you want to be as specific as possible. As for multiple topics, the issue with putting 50 choices all in one poll is that its messy to reply to, its messy to collect data from and its intimidating to just look at (and I'm clearly not the only person who feels this way). There's a reason people often aren't flooded with 50 option multiple choice questions (even when you can choose multiple options). I just sincerely think clear, concise points separated by topic and with unnecessary (which I admit can be subjective) repetition will be the easiest to transmit to the dev team and provide the most useful feedback.
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thrashinuva
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Post by thrashinuva on Mar 4, 2016 18:18:02 GMT -6
It'd be easy to vote for all of them, but I tried to leave out things I wouldn't mind seeing not happen. I tried to look at it from how the game will feel in a complete state, rather than the functional use of such options, as those functions could be represented in a menu or something.
For example, an armory where you can display your equipment, it's nice to look at your stuff, but I don't think it's really necessary for this game. In a lot of online games I love to display my rare stuff, but in a game like this, I'm content with just looking at it while I'm using it, or in my inventory. Things like outfits could fit in a closet, rather than a full armory display, and so, I don't really think it would make an improvement to the feel of the game.
On the flip side, I would support a forge. Not something super grand, but maybe just limited to an easy to access room. It would be easy to delegate this to a menu option, and I think that would be okay too, but I also think limiting the player to going to the forge to craft your weapons and such, will serve as a deterrent of getting too powerful too quickly, and ultimately make the player feel more rewarded when they make a powerful item.
I also don't care for a warp zone. I understand the quality of life check, but I don't think it's going to be so impossibly large to make it take forever to get to where you're going. Having a warp zone will force the logic in players to use it, and will inevitably ruin the feel of the game. I feel stronger about this than I do the armory, but I could just as well see it well implemented, too.
Just some quick one line points:
Zoo/animals: Animals always feels like a cheap excuse for enemies, unless there's a well thought out boss/story. Boiler room: Makes sense for buildings to have, but offers nothing to the feel of the game or any functionality. Factories: I feel like this wouldn't be in a mansion unless there's a good excuse beyond the scope of "because magic". Test subject room: I feel like this fits extremely well with the setting, given the characters actually being test subjects. Rotating room: I'm not sure if this means that up will become down, or we're talking horizontal axis here, if it's the latter then I am in support. Miriam room upgrades/keys: This can offer a sense of progression outside of stats, and if online players could somehow other players rooms, it would be even better.
I voted for quite a bit and didn't vote for quite a bit. I feel most of the rest is more in the obvious department, and so I won't delve too much into it unless there's some discussion.
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Post by Saint Germain on Mar 4, 2016 18:36:56 GMT -6
A colesium would be great loved it in circle of the moon, and aria of sorrow. Love the extra challenge for rare items and enemies put in unique formations and references made.
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Post by CastleDan on Mar 4, 2016 18:37:52 GMT -6
It'd be easy to vote for all of them, but I tried to leave out things I wouldn't mind seeing not happen. I tried to look at it from how the game will feel in a complete state, rather than the functional use of such options, as those functions could be represented in a menu or something. For example, an armory where you can display your equipment, it's nice to look at your stuff, but I don't think it's really necessary for this game. In a lot of online games I love to display my rare stuff, but in a game like this, I'm content with just looking at it while I'm using it, or in my inventory. Things like outfits could fit in a closet, rather than a full armory display, and so, I don't really think it would make an improvement to the feel of the game. On the flip side, I would support a forge. Not something super grand, but maybe just limited to an easy to access room. It would be easy to delegate this to a menu option, and I think that would be okay too, but I also think limiting the player to going to the forge to craft your weapons and such, will serve as a deterrent of getting too powerful too quickly, and ultimately make the player feel more rewarded when they make a powerful item. I also don't care for a warp zone. I understand the quality of life check, but I don't think it's going to be so impossibly large to make it take forever to get to where you're going. Having a warp zone will force the logic in players to use it, and will inevitably ruin the feel of the game. I feel stronger about this than I do the armory, but I could just as well see it well implemented, too. Just some quick one line points: Zoo/animals: Animals always feels like a cheap excuse for enemies, unless there's a well thought out boss/story. Boiler room: Makes sense for buildings to have, but offers nothing to the feel of the game or any functionality. Factories: I feel like this wouldn't be in a mansion unless there's a good excuse beyond the scope of "because magic". Test subject room: I feel like this fits extremely well with the setting, given the characters actually being test subjects. Rotating room: I'm not sure if this means that up will become down, or we're talking horizontal axis here, if it's the latter then I am in support. Miriam room upgrades/keys: This can offer a sense of progression outside of stats, and if online players could somehow other players rooms, it would be even better. I voted for quite a bit and didn't vote for quite a bit. I feel most of the rest is more in the obvious department, and so I won't delve too much into it unless there's some discussion. Yeah it's just a shame a lot of things will get left behind because there's such a huge number of things and there's only the TOP 3. ( unless that's not how this is done?) Lot of the cool locations are being left behind because of things that have nothing to do with locations. This was the problem with this subject to begin with. It's a very broad field, it dealt with layout, locations, and features all together. We want a bit from each! lol
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purifyweirdshard
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Mar 4, 2016 19:03:19 GMT -6
No, I don't think this is a "top 3" kind of thing, it can't be. Like for example, the current top 3 aren't areas in themselves. I think the top....5? of choices from each category should be sent. That way, suggestions for areas, castle architecture and Miriam's room are all sent. I assumed that's how this all was going to work, and in doing that, we wouldn't necessitate 3 split up polls.
It doesn't take all that long to look through these and pick what you like. The only things that are kind of redundant imo are the zoo and exotic pet area, and I'm not crazy about either anyway haha. Watch maker factory sounds neat, but a clock tower is already considered. It doesn't hurt anything for these to be here imo, so long as no one's unique idea was left out in favor of these (don't think so)?
But yeah, guys. It's a big ol' poll and it's fine lol. We've had enough bulleting, restructuring and polling as it is - splitting things further would take more time and demands further attention from non-regulars that may be lost in the muddle.
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thrashinuva
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Post by thrashinuva on Mar 4, 2016 19:24:35 GMT -6
I took this topic as a "this is what the community is the most interested in" type of deal.
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Post by GenericSoda on Mar 4, 2016 19:32:38 GMT -6
The second I saw "Observatory" I knew we needed it. Astrology and the occult often go hand in hand, so it would make sense for an observatory to be a higher level of the castle. Plus, isn't one of the revealed bosses a monster that reflects moonlight? It would be a perfect thematic fit!
A boiler room would be a neat addition, since it would be period relevant, what with the industrial revolution and all. It's something we haven't really seen before in Castlevania so it'd be a welcome change of pace.
Balconies, bridges, and terraces are next on my thumbs-up list. I love the idea of scaling an outer wall by leaping from crumbling bridges to extravagant balconies that overlook a grand courtyard. It would present a good opportunity for hidden items too, like intentionally missing a jump to fall to a lower balcony. The great visual flair they would provide is just icing on the cake. Endless ideas that can be done with this.
Also a wine cellar area would be great. Gebel looks like the kind of flamboyant goof who would definitely care about his wine despite suffering through his curse.
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Vampire
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Post by Vampire on Mar 4, 2016 19:36:42 GMT -6
...I knew I was forgetting something But I see a lack of haunted or horror theme areas,even a haunted section of the castle with zombies and ghosts,werewolves and little terrors that pop out from the background (either scare traps or enemies) should have been mentioned
I mean im sure the whole castle is haunted,bbut having an area with creepy music and jump scares is something I must insist upon since it sticks with the castlevania theme
and then maybe if we are feeling generous a haunted carnival within the deeper into the area with some mirrors and wicked clowns,because everyone hates clowns,be a nice area to stack up on candy themed item drops and popcorn,and maybe ride a rollercoaster straight deeper into the depths of the castle
Nice to see people are voting for the sacraficial chamber idea I mentioned
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Post by GenericSoda on Mar 4, 2016 19:42:34 GMT -6
...I knew I was forgetting something But I see a lack of haunted or horror theme areas,even a haunted section of the castle with zombies and ghosts,werewolves and little terrors that pop out from the background (either scare traps or enemies) should have been mentioned I mean im sure the whole castle is haunted,bbut having an area with creepy music and jump scares is something I must insist upon since it sticks with the castlevania theme and then maybe if we are feeling generous a haunted carnival within the deeper into the area with some mirrors and wicked clowns,because everyone hates clowns,be a nice area to stack up on candy themed item drops and popcorn,and maybe ride a rollercoaster straight deeper into the depths of the castle Nice to see people are voting for the sacraficial chamber idea I mentioned I read an article recently that Italian operas used to have creepy guys in masks just prowl throughout the audience to spook people mid-performance. I think that would be a cool take on the typical "carnival" theme. Especially if a gigantic opera hall is the first area you actually encounter Gebel in!
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Post by CastleDan on Mar 4, 2016 19:47:02 GMT -6
...I knew I was forgetting something But I see a lack of haunted or horror theme areas,even a haunted section of the castle with zombies and ghosts,werewolves and little terrors that pop out from the background (either scare traps or enemies) should have been mentioned I mean im sure the whole castle is haunted,bbut having an area with creepy music and jump scares is something I must insist upon since it sticks with the castlevania theme and then maybe if we are feeling generous a haunted carnival within the deeper into the area with some mirrors and wicked clowns,because everyone hates clowns,be a nice area to stack up on candy themed item drops and popcorn,and maybe ride a rollercoaster straight deeper into the depths of the castle Nice to see people are voting for the sacraficial chamber idea I mentioned I think the theater and ballroom could fit that very well. Ghosts galore.
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Post by dimlitcandle on Mar 4, 2016 21:00:48 GMT -6
...I knew I was forgetting something But I see a lack of haunted or horror theme areas,even a haunted section of the castle with zombies and ghosts,werewolves and little terrors that pop out from the background (either scare traps or enemies) should have been mentioned I mean im sure the whole castle is haunted,bbut having an area with creepy music and jump scares is something I must insist upon since it sticks with the castlevania theme and then maybe if we are feeling generous a haunted carnival within the deeper into the area with some mirrors and wicked clowns,because everyone hates clowns,be a nice area to stack up on candy themed item drops and popcorn,and maybe ride a rollercoaster straight deeper into the depths of the castle Nice to see people are voting for the sacraficial chamber idea I mentioned I read an article recently that Italian operas used to have creepy guys in masks just prowl throughout the audience to spook people mid-performance. I think that would be a cool take on the typical "carnival" theme. Especially if a gigantic opera hall is the first area you actually encounter Gebel in! The closest thing to the opera-house option was "ballroom" and "theater" that I picked. Don't want Gebel to channel too much of the Phantom though, or else Miriam will turn into Christine. I assumed that if he is meant to be a bit of the Phantom, maybe Miriam is meant to be more like the Bride of Frankenstein? I heard her concept design was a reanimated corpse/doll. But, ahhh!! Off topic. Ballroom is the best option. Masquerade---Gebel encounter! Overall great ideas, guys. Loved the Belltower, too. I assumed the Church/Sanctuary would already be a focus as the stained glass is a central theme. They should connect that to a creepy Crypt full of Alchemical occult-saints and Experiment Halls. Sounds like a final area to me.
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Post by saberwolf94 on Mar 4, 2016 23:36:45 GMT -6
A room for Miriam that can be decorated and act as living quarters is indeed a cool idea but I feel people are giving it too much focus and devotion in my humble opinion. This isn't a game like Animal Crossing (not sure if that's the one) but you know those games that are all about depth of home customization. However, a large majority of the room ideas listed for voting are very good.
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XombieMike
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Post by XombieMike on Mar 4, 2016 23:37:50 GMT -6
No, I don't think this is a "top 3" kind of thing, it can't be. Like for example, the current top 3 aren't areas in themselves. I think the top....5? of choices from each category should be sent. That way, suggestions for areas, castle architecture and Miriam's room are all sent. I assumed that's how this all was going to work, and in doing that, we wouldn't necessitate 3 split up polls. It doesn't take all that long to look through these and pick what you like. The only things that are kind of redundant imo are the zoo and exotic pet area, and I'm not crazy about either anyway haha. Watch maker factory sounds neat, but a clock tower is already considered. It doesn't hurt anything for these to be here imo, so long as no one's unique idea was left out in favor of these (don't think so)? But yeah, guys. It's a big ol' poll and it's fine lol. We've had enough bulleting, restructuring and polling as it is - splitting things further would take more time and demands further attention from non-regulars that may be lost in the muddle. I've got to catch up on the rest of the thread, but yeah this is the intention. EDIT: After re-reading this, no that's not even the intention to just send 5. My personal intention is to send them all and put numbers behind each one. "67 out of 100 voters said they liked suggestion x". Of course, this all depends on what Mana takes to the design team. It's not about which of these items are the most popular, but about putting people's game suggestions in front of the design team with number attached of like minded people who agree on those suggestions. Honestly our poll system is good for the limitations we have. I really wish we could be more descriptive and I certainly would like more options, but maybe these limitations make us reduce the amount of translation duty. I know I'm not coming off great by saying that Croc's post was TLDR, but I really am up for doing something different with these on the next go around. Its just that we are limited on what we can do unless someone can come up with a different solution that works better. Purifyweirdsoul's post I have quoted is exactly where I currently stand on the issue, but by no means do I think it's perfect. Hearing that Croc and Dan find it lacking truly pains me, and I wish I could come up with a better way to funnel these ideas along. For now, it seems to be working. This is just our first try, and the process might flow better next time, although I still don't know how much different I would make it. Having people go to different polls might help organize some things, but it's also more to guide people to.
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Post by CastleDan on Mar 4, 2016 23:53:56 GMT -6
No, I don't think this is a "top 3" kind of thing, it can't be. Like for example, the current top 3 aren't areas in themselves. I think the top....5? of choices from each category should be sent. That way, suggestions for areas, castle architecture and Miriam's room are all sent. I assumed that's how this all was going to work, and in doing that, we wouldn't necessitate 3 split up polls. It doesn't take all that long to look through these and pick what you like. The only things that are kind of redundant imo are the zoo and exotic pet area, and I'm not crazy about either anyway haha. Watch maker factory sounds neat, but a clock tower is already considered. It doesn't hurt anything for these to be here imo, so long as no one's unique idea was left out in favor of these (don't think so)? But yeah, guys. It's a big ol' poll and it's fine lol. We've had enough bulleting, restructuring and polling as it is - splitting things further would take more time and demands further attention from non-regulars that may be lost in the muddle. I've got to catch up on the rest of the thread, but yeah this is the intention. EDIT: After re-reading this, no that's not even the intention to just send 5. My personal intention is to send them all and put numbers behind each one. "67 out of 100 voters said they liked suggestion x". Of course, this all depends on what Mana takes to the design team. It's not about which of these items are the most popular, but about putting people's game suggestions in front of the design team with number attached of like minded people who agree on those suggestions. Honestly our poll system is good for the limitations we have. I really wish we could be more descriptive and I certainly would like more options, but maybe these limitations make us reduce the amount of translation duty. I know I'm not coming off great by saying that Croc's post was TLDR, but I really am up for doing something different with these on the next go around. Its just that we are limited on what we can do unless someone can come up with a different solution that works better. Purifyweirdsoul's post I have quoted is exactly where I currently stand on the issue, but by no means do I think it's perfect. Hearing that Croc and Dan find it lacking truly pains me, and I wish I could come up with a better way to funnel these ideas along. For now, it seems to be working. This is just our first try, and the process might flow better next time, although I still don't know how much different I would make it. Having people go to different polls might help organize some things, but it's also more to guide people to. Ahh if that's the case I'll vote for more things. I thought the top _ choices were gonna be sent.
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flaviog
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Post by flaviog on Mar 5, 2016 1:25:11 GMT -6
Where is the Clock Tower? That's the most iconic area in all Castlevanias.
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purifyweirdshard
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Mar 5, 2016 2:11:36 GMT -6
flaviog, the clock tower is one of several areas that were already highlighted in blue from the previous topic, i.e. the team is already working on (or just looking at the possibility of) its inclusion. Actually these are in the first post here, too, under XombieMike's first bullet. Entrance, caves, large fountain, etc etc. Dan: that's good to hear...I imagine having cleared up some things like that will alleviate some of these concerns. I think the castle design feedback is comparatively massive when looking at most of the other topics we'll be voting on, too, so subsequent threads like this won't seem to be as much to take in all at once. Everything from here on looks smaller to me.
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Astaroth
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Post by Astaroth on Mar 5, 2016 2:53:07 GMT -6
some of these areas could work really well together as sort of sub areas of a larger area, like you enter what looks like a zoo, with a building that houses the exotic pets, and after exploring a bit you find a staircase down into a test subject area, all along you face enemies that start out normalish but progress to things like chimera or cockatrice, and then you get to the abominations where the devs just go nuts with random body parts, culminating with a mini/boss fight against this thing that randomly reconfigures itself to attack with different limbs and spews various secretions that inflict status effects
or you enter the sacred grounds (a well maintained graveyard, fewer enemies and almost no undead) from a 'back exit' to the cathedral, but as you go further out from there the landscape slowly gets more gnarled as you enter the unholy grounds (a very rundown one, with a moderate amount of enemies, you start seeing undead), and if you take one path you head downhill toward a swamp that you can eventually get to submerged ruins (and areas beyond like a ship or an underwater cavern), or go another path up a hill and at the heart of the grounds you find the entrance to the mausoleum/morgue (LOTS of undead), and after going down a bit you reach any number of things depending on the other areas, this could be a sort of frankensteins lab, a mass grave with a fight against a creature tha uses the corpses surrounding you, a summoning circle, a sacrificial chamber, the possibilities are endless
there are a bunch of combinations like these that could give areas a very grand feel and give a very present sense of progression, especially if an area has places that then branch off into other areas, giving you a choice of how you want to progress in your epic quest
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Post by CastleDan on Mar 5, 2016 10:25:05 GMT -6
some of these areas could work really well together as sort of sub areas of a larger area, like you enter what looks like a zoo, with a building that houses the exotic pets, and after exploring a bit you find a staircase down into a test subject area, all along you face enemies that start out normalish but progress to things like chimera or cockatrice, and then you get to the abominations where the devs just go nuts with random body parts, culminating with a mini/boss fight against this thing that randomly reconfigures itself to attack with different limbs and spews various secretions that inflict status effects or you enter the sacred grounds (a well maintained graveyard, fewer enemies and almost no undead) from a 'back exit' to the cathedral, but as you go further out from there the landscape slowly gets more gnarled as you enter the unholy grounds (a very rundown one, with a moderate amount of enemies, you start seeing undead), and if you take one path you head downhill toward a swamp that you can eventually get to submerged ruins (and areas beyond like a ship or an underwater cavern), or go another path up a hill and at the heart of the grounds you find the entrance to the mausoleum/morgue (LOTS of undead), and after going down a bit you reach any number of things depending on the other areas, this could be a sort of frankensteins lab, a mass grave with a fight against a creature tha uses the corpses surrounding you, a summoning circle, a sacrificial chamber, the possibilities are endless there are a bunch of combinations like these that could give areas a very grand feel and give a very present sense of progression, especially if an area has places that then branch off into other areas, giving you a choice of how you want to progress in your epic quest I also think the Ballroom location could be apart of the theater location. Tonally it could fit in well nicely.
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