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Post by Dengojin on Mar 3, 2016 1:46:12 GMT -6
well.. I want many secret breakable walls, the first thing I do when I play an IGAvania game is to hit the first wall I see in front of my face xD
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Kaius
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Post by Kaius on Mar 3, 2016 5:50:16 GMT -6
Castle Design, definitly. We had some pictures about monsters, familiars, weapons and last updates were about Miriam design and shaders. Now we should see more about the Castle itself. Remember folks, it will be the biggest IGA ever made !
This being said, every design review and poll are good for the taking in my opinion ! Thanks for the infos about translation Mike.
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Post by H on Mar 3, 2016 6:25:53 GMT -6
Chose the weapons for sure. That was an impressive list.
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Post by Scars Unseen on Mar 3, 2016 6:47:35 GMT -6
Chose the weapons for sure. That was an impressive list. The specific weapons are probably not going to be sent up though since there was a specific pledge tier that let someone design a weapon for the game.
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purifyweirdshard
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Mar 3, 2016 8:21:37 GMT -6
Well, I've been looking this over since yesterday and I can't say I feel very strongly about any one category. I don't see anything I myself directly gave input to...but maybe some things I agreed with at least? Darn it...
Anyway, some thoughts on things: Re: weapons, I think those listed are good suggestions and should be taken into consideration because they aren't really the personalized/vanity type weapons that I imagine those that pledged would add. They're all existing mythical designs, which is kind of a neutral but also specific enough origin to be interesting. I can't imagine anyone putting forward $2000 would ask for Excalibur, Gram, Durandal, etc etc, given the very likely event that IGA would include those swords anyway, as they are taken from a type of material typical to IGAvania games. It's good that we can point out that we like that he uses mythical designs, at least. If nothing else, that should definitely be said: as always, look to historic culture (and Tolkein!) for weapons!
I also liked the tomes idea. I think that should also be put forward as a suggestion for weapon type, if not specific books.
Re: General, what does "classic menu style" refer to? Also, I'm not sure I agree with official support for PC character mods. I'm down to get a PC version of the game myself, but I just don't know how I would feel about console players feeling like they're missing something significant and playing an inferior version (which would be technically graphically inferior, too, as usual). Perhaps in an official capacity, the PC community could submit mod designs and the community could vote on them for actual inclusion into the game as updates/DLC for all game versions? That would be neat, and in keeping with the involvement we'd had in the past.
Animation: there's a lot of other, specific information on this topic in design suggestions. The things listed here just aren't really strong/specific enough to vote on.
Movement: Kind of the same as animation. I think most of the things would be in the game as it is, and I'd defer to their gameplay vision regardless since we can't really know what's best for things like this subjectively.
Having said all that, I'm probably voting for General, but I'm happy with Castle Design just as well!
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Post by CastleDan on Mar 3, 2016 8:55:30 GMT -6
Is layout concerns not being sent to the team with the castle section? I thought it was a pretty big theme among the topic and one of the most important areas. I understand there isn't much to suggest but I still think it was worth saying.
( overly repetitive layouts and/or rooms)
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XombieMike
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Post by XombieMike on Mar 3, 2016 8:59:59 GMT -6
Is layout concerns not being sent to the team with the castle section? I thought it was a pretty big theme among the topic and one of the most important areas. I understand there isn't much to suggest but I still think it was worth saying. ( overly repetitive layouts and/or rooms) If you can make a bullet point line item regarding layout concerns that states the suggestion clearly and in an easy to translate way I will add it.
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Post by CastleDan on Mar 3, 2016 9:33:26 GMT -6
Is layout concerns not being sent to the team with the castle section? I thought it was a pretty big theme among the topic and one of the most important areas. I understand there isn't much to suggest but I still think it was worth saying. ( overly repetitive layouts and/or rooms) If you can make a bullet point line item regarding layout concerns that states the suggestion clearly and in an easy to translate way I will add it. I guess it depends on if this will even be an issue with this game or not. They have a bigger budget, and they have way more time. If those were the reasons for the later DS games being a bit more repetitive layout and design wise then we should be fine. It's just a valid concern considering this will be the largest castle and with something that's vastly bigger there could be the potential for more repetition. The more fun it is to explore the more different and uniquely designed the layouts were, the more repetitive the more it was a chore to explore. I asked crocodile if he could help me with a bullet point anyways, as he's much more better at concise bullet point type suggestions. lol
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XombieMike
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Post by XombieMike on Mar 3, 2016 9:45:14 GMT -6
You can do it, just give it a shot. Instead of making it a suggestion about what not to do, make it a positive suggestion about what you want to see. Such as "Large variety of rooms." I think that telling IGA not to be repetitive is insulting. If you have faith that his biggest castle ever won't be a bunch of copy and paste I would probably just not make a suggestion for something that is already naturally common sense.
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Post by CastleDan on Mar 3, 2016 10:10:24 GMT -6
You can do it, just give it a shot. Instead of making it a suggestion about what not to do, make it a positive suggestion about what you want to see. Such as "Large variety of rooms." I think that telling IGA not to be repetitive is insulting. If you have faith that his biggest castle ever won't be a bunch of copy and paste I would probably just not make a suggestion for something that is already naturally common sense. Yeah, definitely don't mean any disrespect to IGA. These sorta games all have a certain level of repetition to them that is absolutely normal and necessary. The DS games were being pumped out yearly, it's gotta be hard to go wild in such limited time and what they were able to craft in that limited time was pretty remarkable. Having said that... It's hard to express what I'm saying in a way that gets my point across well and doesn't sound too insulting because it's not what i'm trying to be. I'm essentially saying a variety of unique rooms within each section of the castle and a focus on trying to stay away from flat hallway box rooms too much. There's an importance for very different design LAYOUTS...like you walk into the castle of SOTN into the merman room with the rock cave thing you can break open go into a hallway and there's the death room. There's variety in each part of the section. The look stays repetitive in the sense that it all looks to belong in the same section but it peppers different looking rooms and different looking layouts to keep it very fresh feeling as you explore. Can anyone help me.....sum that up in a non-insulting concise way? haha
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XombieMike
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Post by XombieMike on Mar 3, 2016 10:22:57 GMT -6
Ben Judd made a comment on the BCB about how you can't make a castle without a good set of blue prints, and that's what he had seen the team working on when he had visited them in person. In the Double Fine Devs Play they talked about how they didn't even have a dedicated team specifically for the room layouts and that the programmers and artists layed out a grid and sectioned it off for different locations themes. I would like to believe that IGA is putting everything he has into this castle, and like the shader pics, I expect the backgrounds to blow away any expectations I could have dreamed up on my own.
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Post by crocodile on Mar 3, 2016 10:29:10 GMT -6
The main issue with some of the layouts in some of the DS vania games (though the issue is probably a little over-stated) is that they were clearly constrained by time and money in a way this game shouldn't be. So overall, I'm not too concerned that will be an issue for this game. If I were to word a bullet point to address the potential of a problem I might say - Try to avoid excessive use of repetitive or especially simplistic room layout
I use the modifiers "excessive" and "especially" because I don't want to communicate that room repetition or simplistic rooms should be entirely off the table. They are a useful design tool, its only their abuse that is problematic. For example, repetitive/simple rooms are useful to convey order and structure to certain aspects of the castle or regions where you might repeat tasks. A "prison" section is likely to be very ordered and repetitive and a "gauntlet" type section (see Nest of Evil in Portrait of Ruin or Battle Arena in Circe of the Moon) would and should likely repeat a lot of rooms. The LONG Angel Corridor of the Marble Gallery is just a very simple, straight path for a few minutes but its important because it makes the castle seem big. Moving from the basically one side of the castle to the other very early in the game really feels like it opens the place up.
Hopefully that bullet point translates well in Japanese. Also, again, it might not even be necessary. I dunno if feedback that is basically equivalent to "don't make a shitty castle" is super useful
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Post by LunaClefairy on Mar 3, 2016 10:34:05 GMT -6
Wow, there's a whole lot of stuff in every category! I'm not at all familiar with IGAvanias so I don't have a clue what to suggest.
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XombieMike
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Post by XombieMike on Mar 3, 2016 10:34:33 GMT -6
Yeah, let's not add it in like that. I think the list of rooms people have suggested is a much more positive and effective way of communicating the desire for unique areas.
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Post by CastleDan on Mar 3, 2016 10:38:30 GMT -6
Ben Judd made a comment on the BCB about how you can't make a castle without a good set of blue prints, and that's what he had seen the team working on when he had visited them in person. In the Double Fine Devs Play they talked about how they didn't even have a dedicated team specifically for the room layouts and that the programmers and artists layed out a grid and sectioned it off for different locations themes. I would like to believe that IGA is putting everything he has into this castle, and like the shader pics, I expect the backgrounds to blow away any expectations I could have dreamed up on my own. Yeah I agree that they do seem to be focusing on getting the castle right
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purifyweirdshard
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Mar 3, 2016 10:42:30 GMT -6
Yeah, it kinda sounds to me like you're just saying "design it well". I'm sure he's already trying to do that haha. I'll give this a shot though: - Unique room shapes and design touches for a continuous engaging, "new" experience while exploring
- Creative area interconnectivity to break up long stretches of one level
- If a long, similar shaped corridor, consider interesting details (Peeping Eye or scrolling other area in background, multiple ways to traverse the area, environment interaction, etc)
Ah, there's since been some more replies after Dan's request for a list...but yeah, I think that would get the idea across without saying anything like "don't do x".
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XombieMike
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Post by XombieMike on Mar 3, 2016 10:59:57 GMT -6
It seems like the poll is very heavily sided with castle design so I doubt anyone could blame me if I went ahead tonight and put together the poll for it. I'm at work typing on my phone. I plan on revisiting the castle design threads again to see in anyone has added to the submitted thread. In other words... If anyone has some suggestions for castle design here is your last minute warning to get your ideas out there. I'll edit this post and put in a link to the appropriate thread to do that in. Thread: Castle Design and Layout Thread: Miriam should have a Room
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Astaroth
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Post by Astaroth on Mar 3, 2016 11:02:35 GMT -6
Lots of cool and interesting room layouts to find and sit staring at the details ^_^
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Galamoth
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Post by Galamoth on Mar 3, 2016 11:12:21 GMT -6
You can do it, just give it a shot. Instead of making it a suggestion about what not to do, make it a positive suggestion about what you want to see. Such as "Large variety of rooms." I think that telling IGA not to be repetitive is insulting. If you have faith that his biggest castle ever won't be a bunch of copy and paste I would probably just not make a suggestion for something that is already naturally common sense. Yeah, definitely don't mean any disrespect to IGA. These sorta games all have a certain level of repetition to them that is absolutely normal and necessary. The DS games were being pumped out yearly, it's gotta be hard to go wild in such limited time and what they were able to craft in that limited time was pretty remarkable. Having said that... It's hard to express what I'm saying in a way that gets my point across well and doesn't sound too insulting because it's not what i'm trying to be. I'm essentially saying a variety of unique rooms within each section of the castle and a focus on trying to stay away from flat hallway box rooms too much. There's an importance for very different design LAYOUTS...like you walk into the castle of SOTN into the merman room with the rock cave thing you can break open go into a hallway and there's the death room. There's variety in each part of the section. The look stays repetitive in the sense that it all looks to belong in the same section but it peppers different looking rooms and different looking layouts to keep it very fresh feeling as you explore. Can anyone help me.....sum that up in a non-insulting concise way? haha "Variety is the spice of life." I'm not sure how well that proverb fits in this context...lol. What do you make of it, XombieMike ? I just think you could say this to IGA & co. as a clear statement of encouragement.
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XombieMike
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Post by XombieMike on Mar 3, 2016 11:35:34 GMT -6
Galamoth I think the old saying, "Variety is the spice of a deadly hellish castle." fits well.
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