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Post by Scars Unseen on Feb 19, 2016 19:13:57 GMT -6
So you found this weapon you like. Maybe it has a special ability you like. Maybe you just like the way it looks. But eventually, you're going to find better gear, and the monsters' defense will outclass its damage.
But you're an alchemist.
No need to leave an old favorite behind; just fuse it with a new weapon, and keep the appearance and ability of the old with the upgraded base stats of the new. Maybe, as you hone your craft, you can take it even further, choosing what aspects of each to keep. Need a flame enchanted weapon to deal with those pesky ice demons, but just can't do without that deadly Thousand Ebi Slash from the ancient katana Onigiri? Just fuse it with Hephaestus' Fist, and you'll be melting demons faster than you can figure out what to call a Greek Fire roasted riceball.
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Post by crocodile on Feb 19, 2016 20:55:04 GMT -6
I think the crafting system in Kid Icarus Uprising did the same thing (I'm sure other crafting systems have too but KI:U is probably the most recent game I played where crafting was a big part of the game). So yeah I can get behind this idea though I have no idea how hard it is to implement. I guess it will all depend on how much they want crafting to play a part in acquiring the better/best weapons and equipment in the game.
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Clear
Global Moderator
[TI0] お疲れ様でした、IGA!
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Post by Clear on Feb 19, 2016 22:23:11 GMT -6
I like this alchemy fusion, though I'd personally be satisfied with having an alchemy system similar to what the recent Dragon Quest games have. It's rather simple and, for Bloodstained, may pretty much be the only means to earn some of the equipment in the game. This can work if the said equipment have unusual quirks, such as a particular suit of armor where instead of just having high defense, the armor will have an outrageously high evasion buff with the trade-off of a mediocre defense rating. Alchemy must be part of Bloodstained whether it's a relatively simple kind of alchemy or one that can be able to just augment certain characteristics of equipped weapons/armor/items. And it might count as getting that PSN trophy / XBox achievement / Nintendo accomplishment for obtaining all armor in Bloodstained!
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Astaroth
Fifty Storms
What a wonderful night to have a curse...
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Post by Astaroth on Feb 20, 2016 18:52:32 GMT -6
one way a custom item system could be done is as you collect x the 'blueprint' of that item could be added to your list some way so you can create something seperated from the established item lists, which serves to preserve that database from accidental overwrites or value overflow
as for tempering theres a couple different methods, one could be straight finding tempering materials as drops, another could be through deconstructing items for their essence (their stat de/buffs and a small portion of their atk/def to prevent huge leaps in power), along with a few items that grant elemental and status effects, or some that actually lower values so you can tailor a weapon with low atk and stat debuffs but has a massive lck boost (and name it X-X!V''Q >P), either way that could be how you mess with traits or stats, and if the appearance coloring system could be extended to weapons that could end up becoming a very satisfying portion of the crafting system when you take your new gear out for a spin
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Post by Scars Unseen on Feb 20, 2016 20:24:16 GMT -6
I'll be honest: the main purpose for my suggestion was to be able to carry a weapon you like throughout the game without it becoming obsolete while still making item hunts useful.
If you go with a normal upgrade system, you will almost always end up in a situation where it is straight up better either to exclusively upgrade an item or to ignore the upgrade system altogether in favor of picking up new equipment that outclasses it. With a system that fuses two items, you change the conversation from "which will give you better stats," in which there is a clear objective winner to "which do I like the look of, and which one does a cool thing I like," which is far more preference based, allowing for customization and upgrades without regret.
At its base concept, this is similar to the transmogrification feature in World of Warcraft, which allows you to make a piece of armor look like another for aesthetic purposes. At this level, it's pretty easy to implement, as you are simply appending the stats from one weapon to another. No change in animation, physics, or anything else other than straight numbers.
The more advanced version I mentioned - mixing and matching elemental attributes and special abilities - could be trickier since it would mean appending visual effects to weapons and possibly altering animations. For sanity's sake, I'd say that it would be best to restrict that sort of customization to weapons of the same type. Otherwise the workload on the animators would explode.
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[TI0] お疲れ様でした、IGA!
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Post by Clear on Feb 20, 2016 20:58:14 GMT -6
I'll be honest: the main purpose for my suggestion was to be able to carry a weapon you like throughout the game without it becoming obsolete while still making item hunts useful. Ok, then I must have misunderstood. Even after reading your original post, looking at the title of the thread being very general must have been what threw me off. I think that's a great idea. I can imagine this system working well in SoTN if it were to be hacked into the game somehow and replayed with your feature. I as a SoTN player would tend to stick with one weapon from the point I found and equipped it towards the end of the game, and any following weapons I find would just serve to populate my inventory list and pretty much nothing else. So I can see how this feature can benefit the game. It will be really cool if someone would be able to hack SoTN and add/program in this feature in to test.
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Astaroth
Fifty Storms
What a wonderful night to have a curse...
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Post by Astaroth on Feb 20, 2016 21:19:46 GMT -6
i get you, and the first option you mention is a value callback to change the weapon model, hitbox and animation played when you swing your 'custom' weapon
where the custom weapons i outlined would really shine is in ng+, where people have already beat the game a couple of times and have a bunch of items sitting in their inventory are now messing around seeing how deep they can go, you would be fairly limited on the 1st playthrough due to powerful weapons being in limited numbers and the amount of grind you would need to overpower a single weapon like you say if its properly balanced (like a weapon/armors att/def value only adds 1/4 to 1/8 of its full value when used for mats or such but gaining the full stat bumps, the debuff mats would also allow you to scale back a weapon should you decide youve made something too powerful but dont want to start over or youre going for a specific build like above), and the 2nd playthrough youd be playing around and likely making quite a few different weapons and just starting to get the hang of it
the method i pointed out above would actually not require a ton of work, maybe 1-3 extra tables of values like weapon appearance call values (likely already to be in the game as part of the weapon database), custom weapon table (appended to the end of the weapon database or part of a separate database depends on coding preferences and how secure the standard weapons can be made against overwrites), and temper database (basically a compilation of certain columns from the weapon and armor databases to make value callbacks easier), some coding to make the databases pull references and alter values correctly, and taking the color customization that will already be implemented for miriam and extending it to weapons (so no extra animation, just repurposing some features and assets that are already there ^_^)
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Post by crocodile on Feb 21, 2016 4:34:05 GMT -6
I'll be honest: the main purpose for my suggestion was to be able to carry a weapon you like throughout the game without it becoming obsolete while still making item hunts useful. If you go with a normal upgrade system, you will almost always end up in a situation where it is straight up better either to exclusively upgrade an item or to ignore the upgrade system altogether in favor of picking up new equipment that outclasses it. With a system that fuses two items, you change the conversation from "which will give you better stats," in which there is a clear objective winner to "which do I like the look of, and which one does a cool thing I like," which is far more preference based, allowing for customization and upgrades without regret. At its base concept, this is similar to the transmogrification feature in World of Warcraft, which allows you to make a piece of armor look like another for aesthetic purposes. At this level, it's pretty easy to implement, as you are simply appending the stats from one weapon to another. No change in animation, physics, or anything else other than straight numbers. The more advanced version I mentioned - mixing and matching elemental attributes and special abilities - could be trickier since it would mean appending visual effects to weapons and possibly altering animations. For sanity's sake, I'd say that it would be best to restrict that sort of customization to weapons of the same type. Otherwise the workload on the animators would explode. I mean for any RPG game with a large emphasis on loot and equipment and what not, later items kind of have to obsolete most of the earlier equipment. It's the reward for working so hard to either farm or search out these items restricted to later and more difficult parts of the game or guarded by especially tough enemies. I haven't played WoW so I can't really speak to how it does things but usually my experience with crafting system is though its usually the best way to get the best or almost the best equipment in the game, you aren't going to craft your Short Sword you found in the beginning into something that supersedes the "Masamune" or the equivalent in the game. You're encourage to throw out the old for the new though a good crafting system does allow for more customization than a standard loot system.
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Post by Scars Unseen on Feb 21, 2016 7:18:27 GMT -6
I'll be honest: the main purpose for my suggestion was to be able to carry a weapon you like throughout the game without it becoming obsolete while still making item hunts useful. If you go with a normal upgrade system, you will almost always end up in a situation where it is straight up better either to exclusively upgrade an item or to ignore the upgrade system altogether in favor of picking up new equipment that outclasses it. With a system that fuses two items, you change the conversation from "which will give you better stats," in which there is a clear objective winner to "which do I like the look of, and which one does a cool thing I like," which is far more preference based, allowing for customization and upgrades without regret. At its base concept, this is similar to the transmogrification feature in World of Warcraft, which allows you to make a piece of armor look like another for aesthetic purposes. At this level, it's pretty easy to implement, as you are simply appending the stats from one weapon to another. No change in animation, physics, or anything else other than straight numbers. The more advanced version I mentioned - mixing and matching elemental attributes and special abilities - could be trickier since it would mean appending visual effects to weapons and possibly altering animations. For sanity's sake, I'd say that it would be best to restrict that sort of customization to weapons of the same type. Otherwise the workload on the animators would explode. I mean for any RPG game with a large emphasis on loot and equipment and what not, later items kind of have to obsolete most of the earlier equipment. It's the reward for working so hard to either farm or search out these items restricted to later and more difficult parts of the game or guarded by especially tough enemies. I haven't played WoW so I can't really speak to how it does things but usually my experience with crafting system is though its usually the best way to get the best or almost the best equipment in the game, you aren't going to craft your Short Sword you found in the beginning into something that supersedes the "Masamune" or the equivalent in the game. You're encourage to throw out the old for the new though a good crafting system does allow for more customization than a standard loot system. On the other hand, there's a segment of players that either grow attached to a certain look for their character or actively dislike the look of equipment that is in other respects an upgrade. The primary point of my suggestion - and the entire point of the WoW Transmogrify system - is that the desire for a certain appearance and the desire for more effective equipment don't have to be at odds. Loot would still be important in the system I outlined. You would just have the option of keeping the appearance of a weapon you've come to consider part of your character's identification. The other point is that sometimes you get a weapon with an ability you like that has no high-powered analogues. Take for example, the whip sword in Aria of Sorrow. It was a nice weapon with the best reach in its class of weapons. There are other weapons you get later on that also have nice features, but if you happened to like that one, you're kind of out luck later on in the game. This would be a way around that, meaning that you have to make decisions on more criteria than just numerical superiority. As for WoW, it more or less just lets you use the model for any equipment you own for the appearance of any other equipment of the same type you own. It's a vanity feature, and one of the more popular additions to WoW(and an often requested feature in other MMOs)
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Post by Rigel on Feb 21, 2016 16:53:46 GMT -6
I really like the idea, sometimes the best looking weapons are completely useless or need to be changed at some point, it could be a way to level them up or to change the type of damage.
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Post by crocodile on Feb 21, 2016 19:53:33 GMT -6
I mean for any RPG game with a large emphasis on loot and equipment and what not, later items kind of have to obsolete most of the earlier equipment. It's the reward for working so hard to either farm or search out these items restricted to later and more difficult parts of the game or guarded by especially tough enemies. I haven't played WoW so I can't really speak to how it does things but usually my experience with crafting system is though its usually the best way to get the best or almost the best equipment in the game, you aren't going to craft your Short Sword you found in the beginning into something that supersedes the "Masamune" or the equivalent in the game. You're encourage to throw out the old for the new though a good crafting system does allow for more customization than a standard loot system. On the other hand, there's a segment of players that either grow attached to a certain look for their character or actively dislike the look of equipment that is in other respects an upgrade. The primary point of my suggestion - and the entire point of the WoW Transmogrify system - is that the desire for a certain appearance and the desire for more effective equipment don't have to be at odds. Loot would still be important in the system I outlined. You would just have the option of keeping the appearance of a weapon you've come to consider part of your character's identification. The other point is that sometimes you get a weapon with an ability you like that has no high-powered analogues. Take for example, the whip sword in Aria of Sorrow. It was a nice weapon with the best reach in its class of weapons. There are other weapons you get later on that also have nice features, but if you happened to like that one, you're kind of out luck later on in the game. This would be a way around that, meaning that you have to make decisions on more criteria than just numerical superiority. As for WoW, it more or less just lets you use the model for any equipment you own for the appearance of any other equipment of the same type you own. It's a vanity feature, and one of the more popular additions to WoW(and an often requested feature in other MMOs) Oh this is specifically about aesthetics? Ok I think I understand you better now. I don't expect many weapons found in the early or midpoint of the game to have much aesthetic appeal and the sorts of weapons that likely will are probably decently rare/powerful weapons you find later with like specialty names (i.e. the "Masamune"). I expect there to be a wide range of weapons at different strengths in each class. For base weapons you also have to account for balance. I expect most weapons with great range to have less power and vice versa - that's what happened with that Whip-Sword (of course the version in Bloodstained is likely to be extremely good). I dunno, I don't think this is a big deal because I don't expect there to not be a weapon type you can take with you to higher levels and the trade-off between something look cool/pretty and being strong seem valuable to have? I'm also skeptical about how much distinction there will be in the visualization of weapons or armor (aside from designated costumes) but I guess we will see soon enough. I dunno, I can respect your position but it just seems a bit unnecessary to me.
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Post by Nuralit on Feb 23, 2016 13:10:25 GMT -6
I'd like that honestly. One thing that turned me off in AOS was how after you got the Claimh Solais, there was no reason to use anything else. I've always been a fan of Halberds and Polearms in general, so if I could carry a weapon like that through the game, It'd be great.
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Post by abbadon on Feb 25, 2016 21:49:51 GMT -6
Okay, liking this idea! The idea in my head is that there are certain "classes" of weapons i.e. Short swords, katanas, reverse grip swords, etc. that have the same basic properties (hitboxes, basic animation, and so on) but minor variations in skills, stats and passives. You could fuse two weapons in the same category into each other, choosing which properties it carries on. Let's say that you like the sword Durandal for it's Fire property. You could fuse it into the Stream Blade to carry on its Fire property while keeping Stream Blade's Aquatic Killer property and Dragon Flow skill.
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