Arcueid Brunestud
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Post by Arcueid Brunestud on Jul 13, 2016 11:33:19 GMT -6
There's an even older voice thread here. The unofficial official voice actor discussion thread!One of the notable quotes I am actually really curious about the Japanese cast. Here is my dream cast for the Japanese voice over: - Kuwashima Houko voicing Miriam with her soft wispy voice - Miyano Mamoru as Gebel, he did a phenomenal job as Alucard on the Tsuioku no Yasoukyoku drama CD - Ishida Akira or Hirakawa Daisuke would be great as Johannes! That's what I suggested for Miriam, but then I realized that Houko Kuwashima is Shanoa's voice actor as well. Will they use her again? My full list of suggested VAs: Miriam: -Miyuki Sawashiro -Maaya Sakamoto Gebel: -Takehito Koyasu -Tooru Ookawa -Shuuichi Ikeda -Tomokazu Seki -Jouji Nakata Johannes: -Shinichiro Miki -Jun Fukuyama -Daisuke Ono And now for some videos so you know how each voice actor sounds. Miriam Miyuki Sawashiro
Maaya Sakamoto
Gebel Takehito Koyasu
Tooru Ookawa
Shuuichi Ikeda
^the giant black monster thing
Tomokazu Seki
Jouji Nakata
Johannes Shinichiro Miki
Jun Fukuyama
Daisuke Ono
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Galamoth
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Post by Galamoth on Jul 13, 2016 16:03:55 GMT -6
Arcueid Brunestud Now that you mention it, I do remember stating that I'd like to hear Houko Kuwashima as Miriam in that thread. Ai Kayano & Ami Koshimizu would do just as well, if you ask me! ^ Shuuichi Ikeda as Gebel? That'd be awesome too. (I also remember saying that Stephen Fry should be Zangetsu's English voice. I don't remember whether I was serious or just joking.)
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Post by asterra on Jul 13, 2016 17:00:42 GMT -6
As long as we're still talking about this, my two cents.
I normally stick with Japanese dialogue. But I make the occasional exception, for various reasons. Given that Belgrade will be in this game in some capacity, plus the not entirely unrelated fact that I played SotN in English back in the day, I will probably go with English the majority of the time, in this case.
Now, I need to rant a bit. English voice acting is, on the whole, poor. There are very good reasons for this, from Hollywood soaking up most of the available talent, to the unavoidable truth that the overwhelming majority of media that appeals to English-speaking populations is already in English, resulting in a miserable pool of voice actors. That is one factor. Also, since the topic is Miriam's voice, I feel compelled to bring up my other gripe: Western female voices are almost always lower in timbre and considerably lower in pitch than the original Japanese voices they are meant to replace. It's partly a physical inevitability and partly a speech habit - starting sometime in the latter 20th century, women in the West began to habitually talk at the lowest register their voices could handle, without realizing they were doing it. These days, many Western women speak with an annoying "vocal fry" that you cannot un-hear, because their voices are simply going too low. I think I've made my point.
The TL;DR of that is that I fully expect any hypothetical dub of Miriam's voice to be older-sounding than the Japanese original, unless special care is taken to avoid this typical outcome. Not only would the voice need to be chosen with care, but the voice actress would need to be specifically instructed to try to match the vocalizations of the original speaker, rather than simply read a few lines in whatever voice comes naturally.
And with all that being said, while it would be great if this is how things turned out, ultimately I will not be personally bothered if Miriam's English voice ends up being a poor replacement. Such things can be modded. For example, I can and will alter the pitch of a given voice myself, just as I have done with a few other games. In the worst case scenario, I can simply replace the dub with the Japanese original for Miriam alone.
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Post by Scars Unseen on Jul 13, 2016 18:36:22 GMT -6
I don't think it's so much that English voice acting is poor(see Legacy of Kain series, most Bioware and Naughty Dog games, etc) so much as that it is just largely unsuitable as a replacement for Japanese dramatic theater traditions, which is where modern Japanese voice acting evolved from. You'd get equally cringey/laughable results dubbing an American movie in Japanese(believe me, I've seen a few...). In order to get good, equivalent results, you need both the dub's director and actors to study the original, and probably Japanese theater traditions as well.
There are some exceptions where the source is closer to western drama than others where American voice acting happened to fit in(Cowboy Bebop being the most notable example), but for the most part, that's the reason that dubs seem off even when performed by otherwise accomplished VAs.
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Post by asterra on Jul 13, 2016 19:01:40 GMT -6
There are some exceptions where the source is closer to western drama than others where American voice acting happened to fit in(Cowboy Bebop being the most notable example), but for the most part, that's the reason that dubs seem off even when performed by otherwise accomplished VAs. I'll stand by what I said. As a case-in-point, if you happen to be watching Re-Zero, picture in your mind just what it would take for an English voice cast to be able to convincingly dub the most recent episode (that would be 15). I'm going to tell you right now: It would be comical. The demands of that episode are quite simply beyond any possible established English voice talent you could name. Keep it generic and cartoony, and you're in business. Require some acting chops and you're asking for trouble. Meanwhile, the far more robust Japanese seiyuu industry has got you covered with no trouble whatsoever. It's just a fact of how the two entertainment industries differ in talent distribution.
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Post by Scars Unseen on Jul 13, 2016 19:11:11 GMT -6
asterra And I stand by what I said. There are plenty of great talented voice actors in western animation and video games who are wholly unsuited for anime. The styles of voice direction between the the western and Japanese VA industries is just too great in most cases. Now I will say that the Japanese voice industry is much more organized, but this is both to the benefit and detriment of the industries that hire them. with a single monolithic VA guild, it's easier to get a larger variety of actors than the more regionally organized western VAs, but at the same time, it's also much more costly to license, especially in the case of video games that later get ported to other systems or regions. American voice acting is usually "for hire," meaning that the VA gets paid for the initial performance and that's it.
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Post by asterra on Jul 13, 2016 19:34:37 GMT -6
The styles of voice direction between the the western and Japanese VA industries is just too great in most cases. Which is why my chosen case-in-point mostly features dramatic and emotional elements which cannot be pigeonholed as culturally unique.
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Post by Scars Unseen on Jul 13, 2016 19:40:47 GMT -6
The styles of voice direction between the the western and Japanese VA industries is just too great in most cases. Which is why my chosen case-in-point mostly features dramatic and emotional elements which cannot be pigeonholed as culturally unique. Re:Zero? Are you kidding me? Re:Zero has Japanese exaggerated drama and comedy stamped all over it. Getting a decent western voice direction for that is as likely as getting one for Bakemonogatari.
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Post by asterra on Jul 13, 2016 20:02:33 GMT -6
Re:Zero? Are you kidding me? Re:Zero has Japanese exaggerated drama and comedy stamped all over it. Getting a decent western voice direction for that is as likely as getting one for Bakemonogatari. Not to put too fine a point on it, but I did specify a particular episode. Anyway, I changed my mind. It wouldn't be comical, because the cringe would make that impossible.
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Post by Scars Unseen on Jul 13, 2016 20:15:26 GMT -6
asterra If you're talking about Betelgeuse's performance, that actually wouldn't be too hard(and in fact, some people on Reddit tried to dismiss him as a Joker expy). Hell, I could do a decent Betelgeuse. But everything surrounding him - all of the main characters involved in that episode - are very Japanese. If you want an example of a show that would be relatively easy to convincingly dub, look at Erased.
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Post by crocodile on Jul 13, 2016 20:25:20 GMT -6
As long as we're still talking about this, my two cents. I normally stick with Japanese dialogue. But I make the occasional exception, for various reasons. Given that Belgrade will be in this game in some capacity, plus the not entirely unrelated fact that I played SotN in English back in the day, I will probably go with English the majority of the time, in this case. Now, I need to rant a bit. English voice acting is, on the whole, poor. There are very good reasons for this, from Hollywood soaking up most of the available talent, to the unavoidable truth that the overwhelming majority of media that appeals to English-speaking populations is already in English, resulting in a miserable pool of voice actors. That is one factor. Also, since the topic is Miriam's voice, I feel compelled to bring up my other gripe: Western female voices are almost always lower in timbre and considerably lower in pitch than the original Japanese voices they are meant to replace. It's partly a physical inevitability and partly a speech habit - starting sometime in the latter 20th century, women in the West began to habitually talk at the lowest register their voices could handle, without realizing they were doing it. These days, many Western women speak with an annoying "vocal fry" that you cannot un-hear, because their voices are simply going too low. I think I've made my point. The TL;DR of that is that I fully expect any hypothetical dub of Miriam's voice to be older-sounding than the Japanese original, unless special care is taken to avoid this typical outcome. Not only would the voice need to be chosen with care, but the voice actress would need to be specifically instructed to try to match the vocalizations of the original speaker, rather than simply read a few lines in whatever voice comes naturally. And with all that being said, while it would be great if this is how things turned out, ultimately I will not be personally bothered if Miriam's English voice ends up being a poor replacement. Such things can be modded. For example, I can and will alter the pitch of a given voice myself, just as I have done with a few other games. In the worst case scenario, I can simply replace the dub with the Japanese original for Miriam alone. How good is your Japanese? Are you fluent? Because my experience has been those who sing the praises of the "glorious Nippon!" and decry the quality and talent of English voice acting in broad, sweeping strokes often don't actually speak Japanese very well (maybe this doesn't apply to you I dunno but boy does it describe most of those people I've encountered). This isn't the 90s anymore. You can critique specific actors/actresses/directors/studios/whatever but English dubbing overall has made leaps and bounds over the years and consistently produces superlative work. Recent dubs like Kill la Kill, Fate/Zero, Space Dandy have absolutely knocked it out of the park to say nothing of classics like the well known Cowboy Bebop. Hell even TERRIBLE shows like Sword Art Online have gotten good dubs recently. Saying "Show X has a bad dub" is fine though debatable depending on the show. Saying English dubbing as a whole or overall is bad is just wrong. I'm also concerned (and perhaps a bit weirded out?) that something that bothers you, so much so that you are interested in modding, is a critique of pitch. One of the worst aspects of Japanese dubbing is the tendency for women to speak in abnormally high pitches. Such characters or roles can often time border on insufferable. I'm not entirely sure if its down to an over-emphasis on being cute/moe or maybe a bit of latent cultural sexism or whatever but it certainly isn't always appropriate or good to listen to. Not every single English VA is a perfect fit for a Japanese VA but then again not every Japanese VA is a perfect fit for their character either. That's why you get people, even long time anime fans, saying sometimes they like an English VA/performance over a Japanese VA/performance. With Miriam's English VA, the goal shouldn't be to try to match the Japanese but rather do the best work that is fitting for the character. Ideally you'd think they would be the same but sometimes that hasn't been the case in VA work. As I've said before, I'd much prefer Miriam was a person with a personality and not just some brooding, stoic character but I'm going to be annoyed if her JP VA sounds like its inhaling helium (a bit of hyperbole ) or "uguu"ing all over the place. Thankfully, there are female Japanese VAs that can do personality + badass so hopefully they choose one of them <3
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Post by Scars Unseen on Jul 13, 2016 20:37:28 GMT -6
crocodile I think I'll be okay as long as Miriam doesn't go all Nep Nep on us.
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Post by asterra on Jul 13, 2016 20:40:09 GMT -6
asterra If you're talking about Betelgeuse's performance, that actually wouldn't be too hard(and in fact, some people on Reddit tried to dismiss him as a Joker expy). Hell, I could do a decent Betelgeuse. He was actually the thing I specifically didn't mean. I mean the performances of pretty much everyone else who had anything to do in the show. So I'll tell you what. Find me a clip of a non-cringe effort to dub someone going insane, someone's dying words, or someone screaming in anguish at a loved one's loss
and I will use that to gauge how wrong I've been about English rent-a-dubs.
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Post by Scars Unseen on Jul 13, 2016 20:46:10 GMT -6
Actually, I think I just realized I wasn't engaged in the honest discussion I thought I was.
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Post by asterra on Jul 13, 2016 21:01:39 GMT -6
How good is your Japanese? Are you fluent? Good enough that I don't think twice unless it's going to literally be 75%+ reading. I'm also concerned (and perhaps a bit weirded out?) that something that bothers you, so much so that you are interested in modding, is a critique of pitch. Let's be clear on this one. It's mostly a critique of accuracy. If a character is a teenager and looks like a teenager, she probably sounds like one too, in Japanese. There aren't enough female English voices out there to be picky, and the brutal fact of the matter is that almost none of them can make themselves sound like anything but a 30-something trying to sound younger. One of the worst aspects of Japanese dubbing is the tendency for women to speak in abnormally high pitches. Such characters or roles can often time border on insufferable. I'm not entirely sure if its down to an over-emphasis on being cute/moe or maybe a bit of latent cultural sexism or whatever but it certainly isn't always appropriate or good to listen to. It helps to recognize that almost every single anime made in the last decade+ has been made for and almost exclusively features characters of schoolgoing age. If you go back far enough - and I'm talking the early 80s - this is manifestly not the case. I'm not defending this - hell, I could go for more Space Adventure Cobra. Just saying what is. Second thing to bear in mind is the aforementioned observation that female voices in Japan are higher in pitch and timbre in the first place; it's what they're used to and not what we're used to. With Miriam's English VA, the goal shouldn't be to try to match the Japanese but rather do the best work that is fitting for the character. Going to have to disagree on this point, but again, I have solutions on standby so it's ultimately just a matter of personal convenience and perhaps a concern about the shared experience. Thankfully, there are female Japanese VAs that can do personality + badass so hopefully they choose one of them Precisely. Bloodstained looks like it's aiming to be just as down-to-earth as Castlevania has always been, so a comically high-pitched voice would be utterly out of place and is thus essentially impossible. Miriam looks like she's supposed to be about 17, but there's nothing visual to suggest she has arbitrarily become Warrior Woman after undergoing her ritual, so I expect a neutral, demure voice. I still pretty much guarantee you that the hypothetical English voice will be about three or four semitones lower.
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[TI0] We are in contradiction... However our feelings for the world are no different. How odd.
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Post by WindsOfOsiris on Jul 14, 2016 4:02:50 GMT -6
Having Hayter as Zangetsu and Belgrade as Gebel would make more sense to me. People kickstarted the project with Hayter in mind for Gebel though, so that's what were gonna get unless the SAG AFTA thing doesn't work out. I actually would have loved this much more. Say what you will but I loved Belgrade as Alucard, he has such an iconic tone to his voice, and the guy they replaced him with for the PSP version just wasn't the same for me. It would be weird for belgrade to do zangetsu, i love alucard but it is a strange fit. honestly i would rather Jamieson Price do Gebel. he did Walter Burnhardt - in Castlevania LOI, Baruner in Castlevania POR. And one of my favorites roles he did was Duke Pantarei - Tales of Vesperia. for Miriam, im really racking my head for a voice that would seem to fit her. i feel like her voice is a semi serious and fierce but still is a young ladys sweet voice at the same time. someone like Mikasa (Trina Nishmura) - Attack on titan....... or Anna Graves.
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Post by m0nkf15h on Jul 14, 2016 7:00:52 GMT -6
Slightly off topic i know but are we gonna get the choice in options menu for japanese w/ subtitle, or is it only english language version that will be available to us westerners?
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Post by Scars Unseen on Jul 14, 2016 8:27:52 GMT -6
It would be very weird for us not to get both. Usually when that happens, it's a licensing issue that occurred because the developer didn't know they were going to be porting the game to the west when they made the original agreements. Re-licensing for future releases can apparently get really expensive(which is why you see stuff like voice DLC for visual novels on Steam and no Japanese voices for the PC port of Dragon's Dogma). Since this game is being made with all regions and platforms in mind from the start, it shouldn't be an issue.
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Arcueid Brunestud
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Arcueid Brunestud
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Post by Arcueid Brunestud on Jul 14, 2016 10:44:52 GMT -6
Slightly off topic i know but are we gonna get the choice in options menu for japanese w/ subtitle, or is it only english language version that will be available to us westerners? Taken from BS's Kickstarter campaign FAQ:
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Post by dareka on Jul 14, 2016 11:00:31 GMT -6
Thank you for sharing this Mana . It sounds like Miriam isn't the only character needing a VA... Since Igarashi doesn't speak English, are you assisting him with the casting process, or will that role be assigned to another person? I don't think so but IGA usually asks for my opinion whenever he's deciding on something . Since he doesn't speak English, I help out with the spell names that Miriam will shout out. Something that sounds cool in Japanese doesn't always sound cool in English and vice versa. Maybe if they're still stumped on spell names I can open up a thread for suggestions. Wish you'd been at IGA's side when he was deciding on the villan's name for Lament of Innocence. You weren't, and we got WALTER. On the quality of the dubs, Japanese vs English ... my personal view, speaking both as a non-native speaker, is that it's not so much a problem of the quality of the voice acting in English: the problem is that the script and content is skewed towards Japanese, so that when English speakers are forced to interpret it, they sound worse than they would in content that was originally in English. Just compare your average japanese anime English dub to your average dub for material that was originally in English. It's quite noticeable.
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