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Post by crocodile on Sept 19, 2015 19:30:52 GMT -6
At the $1.75 mark, Speed Run Mode was funded! It was described as “IGA will be able to add a mode that helps speedrunners perfect their uncanny routes through the castle halls!” So it’s clear we can expect some features that will make speedrunning easier and more enjoyable to do and perhaps watch. Recently, Inticreates added a Speed Run mode to the PC version of Azure Striker Gunvolt. Since Gunvolt and Bloodstained share a developer and it’s clear that Inticreates is becoming increasingly aware and interested in the speedrun community (note their “Azure Blur” contest) I think the Speed Run mode of Gunvolt can give us insight into what to expect for Bloodstained. To my understanding it includes (please correct me if I’ve made any errors as I haven’t gotten a chance to play the PC version myself): - Cutscenes are skipped
- Control Input Display on Screen
- Timer on Screen (to my understanding it never stops even when the game is paused which is the correct way to do it)
- “Custom Save Points” (i.e. Save States)
- Some RNG is reduced or removed
- “Pervasion” (a Gunvolt exclusive mechanic) is disabled for most of the game due to its revival implications
Obviously the last point wouldn’t apply to Bloodstained but at least we can hope for the other features to be included as a baseline. With regards to other features that would be great to see (this is a mix of things I’ve thought of and things I’ve seen others ask for) I’d put forth: - Visual Comparison of Past & Present Speed Runs
- Video in Video: A small video playback of a previous run plays in a small window as you play your current run. This is similar in functionality to the Livesplit software many runners and streamers already use. Might be too costly to implement in game?
- Ghosts: As you move through the castle you can see a ghastly version of yourself from a previous run and compare strategies. As a horror-themed game, this could even be narratively justified. Cheaper/easier of these two options to implement?
- Youtube (or similar service) Upload feature: Upload saved videos of runs straight to Youtube from the game itself. Size constraints may make this difficult? (most games that have Youtube upload features only let you upload video that are several minutes long - 1+ hours may be too long)
- Segmented Timer or the ability to add landmarks to the Timer: Many speedrunners, when they are comparing speedruns, have a timer that checks for landmarks (every time a level is completed, a major boss is beaten, a major item collected, etc.) so that a runner can get an idea how well they are doing. Have they fallen behind compared to past runs or are they doing better than before? This would let them know how many seconds/minutes ahead/behind they are this run compared to a previous one with respect to the time it took them to complete/reach that same landmark.
What other features would you like to see or do you think would be helpful for the speedrun community from either a player or spectator perspective? Why? |
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Post by Goobsausage on Sept 19, 2015 22:13:28 GMT -6
I think it'd be nice if console-specific extra features and familiars/relics/items were disabled. Since Bloodstained is going to be multi-platform, I figured it could be done in order to put everyone on an equal playing field and avoid making one console version of the game superior over the others.
I also think it'd be nice to see the speedrunning feature be used on Classic Mode mode since people are going to speedrun that anyway. It'd be nice to give them the same features and possibly make it easier for Bloodstained multiple time slots or its own dedicated block during events like AGDQ/SGDQ.
Ghosts sound like they'll be possible to implement due to the asynchronous multiplayer feature offering similar features. It'd also be less obtrusive on screen space and what the player can see in front of them than a video in video function.
The control input display on screen sounds cool. I don't know how it works in Gunvolt, but I hope that feature ends up being transparent to avoid cluttering up the screen.
Segmented timer sounds great. I know some speedrunners make their own on their streams, and it'd be nice to see the feature built in.
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Post by BahamutKaiser on Sept 28, 2015 17:15:21 GMT -6
Ultra cheap equipment that makes you invulnerable for the rest of the game disabled?
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Post by crocodile on Oct 3, 2015 1:22:20 GMT -6
So Inticreates recently updated the Steam version of Gunvolt. Leaderboards have been added to the Speed Run Mode and a new variation of the Speed Run Mode (with its own leaderboards) has been added called "Kudos Speed Run Mode" which modifies the combo system in the game. That's a very specific Gunvolt thing but the addition of leaderboards + the ability to modify basic aspects of the gameplay may give us insight into what they may do with Bloodstained. We don't know all the details about Bloodstained's gameplay systems so its hard to speculate on this but the possibility for interesting stuff is out there.
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Post by allooutrick on Oct 27, 2015 13:31:14 GMT -6
I personally hope they don't minimize or remove the rng for speed run mode. A lot of the fun of speed running and watching runs is reacting / watching people react to changing scenarios.
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Post by ghaleon on Oct 28, 2015 20:32:21 GMT -6
I don't speedrun myself, but I imagine removing some RNG elements would be a must for me if I was. Like needing a key to open the door to the next room that drops from random trash.. I'd feel really cheated if I lost a speedrun contest by seconds when I had to kille 100 trash for the key to drop and that other @%#@#% got it in like 12.
I love ghosts though... In any game where speed is a thing, I hate not having a ghost. In fact one of the biggest gripes I have about forza motorsport is that you cannot race against your own ghost unless it's the same exact car... In gran tourismo, you can record a ghost for a track, get a new car, and then race against your old-car's ghost to really see how it performs differently, very hard to appreciate that quite at the same level without a ghost! It makes it feel like you have competition even when you're playing alone too, ghosts ftw! GHOST GHOST *hits desk*.
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LuckPercentSRL
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Post by LuckPercentSRL on Oct 28, 2015 21:19:22 GMT -6
Yo you know I am excited for this part of the game.
Axiom Verge did the same deal and it is awesome how it does it. Really cant wait to speedrun the game (and the beta if that ever comes around). I want to possibly finish it day 1 then start by next week with speedrunning.
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Post by Silver6986 on Nov 5, 2015 7:04:15 GMT -6
I don't speedrun myself, but I imagine removing some RNG elements would be a must for me if I was. Like needing a key to open the door to the next room that drops from random trash.. I'd feel really cheated if I lost a speedrun contest by seconds when I had to kille 100 trash for the key to drop and that other @%#@#% got it in like 12. Argh the comment reminds me of Diablo 3, you look at the Leaderboards on that game and you can see the chasers for the top of the boards and think "yeah, cool, I can do that, copy/paste their build and off I go". Then you get hit with a massive amount of RNG. Not fun. Not really what I would peg as this is what it should be either (the inclusion, or of keeping the same amount of RNG). A speed run mode would be sweet though! Silver |
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Post by crocodile on Jan 20, 2016 21:42:14 GMT -6
Hey guys, I really wanna write this topic up so please, if you guys have any more feedback/ideas you'd like to put forward, please step on up <3
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Post by Nelson Belmont on Jan 20, 2016 22:14:09 GMT -6
Maybe shapeshifting to a creature that makes Miriam moves faster, only available on Speed Run mode of course
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Post by allooutrick on Jan 20, 2016 23:07:38 GMT -6
Thinking about how Axiom Verge removed every bit of its story for the speed run mode I've come to think: wouldn't it be awesome if the npc's still did their animations at the appropriate times and places in the story but you never trigger the event yourself? To elaborate imagine we're playing Symphony of the Night and you meet Maria in the corridor, it's speed run mode and so instead of stopping to chat you run straight past her as she stops to begin the cut scene that'll never occur. Another instance would be in Dawn of Sorrow when you meet the antagonists in the Wizardry Lab. They prepare themselves to mock and harass you but nope. Running by. As an addition to this the characters can go through their entire animation for the original scene.
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Post by crocodile on Jan 21, 2016 0:20:45 GMT -6
Is that any faster than just cutting out the story sequences? It seems like it wouldn't be and might even be more work maybe?
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Astaroth
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Post by Astaroth on Jan 21, 2016 0:21:37 GMT -6
i think inti has a good handle on the meat of speedrunning like cutscene disable, leaderboards and ingame timer, i dont think rng should go away but something like doubling/tripling the drop rate will actually reduce farm overlevelling which makes a speedrun more about technical ability and skill rather than super wild rng swings, and having seperate boards for new game and ng+ is a good idea since both will become cats
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Post by crocodile on Jan 21, 2016 0:30:19 GMT -6
I mean, I would think that nothing that you need to beat the game (as opposed to 100% it) would be subject to RNG. If it was I assume most Speed-Runners would just default to New Game+ Mode runs then.
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Post by Goobsausage on Jan 21, 2016 0:37:53 GMT -6
There's still going to be a chance to revisit/revise speedrun mode ideas once we know more about the game and get our hands on the beta, right?
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Post by crocodile on Jan 28, 2016 21:32:04 GMT -6
It doesn't seem like much more discussion is to be had on the topic so I think the below is what I will write up. Any objections? Anything reasonable I forgot to add? Thread: Speed Run Mode: (Realistic) Hopes, Dreams and DesiresSummary: Many in the community are avid speedrunners or are fans of watching speedruns. From our experiences, we were able to pool together all the aspects of a Speed Run Mode we thought would make speedruns both more fun to practice and/or more fun to spectate. We recognize some ideas are more viable than others but we have faith given Inticreates prior experiences with Speed Run modes that they can parse out what can and can't be done. - Trimmed Narrative - Cutscenes and NPC dialogue are super easy to skip and/or (preferably) removed entirely
- Control Input Display - Displacing controller inputs on screen can be useful for those trying to perfect button inputs for attacks and movement techniques.
- On-Screen Timer & Leaderboards - Standard features that are likely already confirmed but it doesn't hurt to mention them. The timer should never stop even if the game is paused or a status screen is brought up.
- Segmented Timer - An example (look to the left) can be seen here. The timer would take note of major milestones (called "splits") in the game and display when each event took place and how much better or worse that time is from previous attempts. It's a way for speedrunners to compare runs to each other portion by portion and look for ways to improve particular sections of the run. Traditionally, where these splits are assigned are usually decided by the speedrunner depending on the type of speedrun they are doing. For simplicity's sake, setting the splits here at each major boss is probably the best thing to do.
- Ghosts - Similar to the ghosting feature seen in many racing games, having a previous run of yourself (or a friend potentially shared online) to play against and compare may offer avenues for self improvement or a fun way to race asynchronously.
- Toggle -All the above display features should be able to be easily toggled on or off at the start or during a run.
- Suspend Feature - Not a requirement but a save-state feature (even a temporary one) can be useful to help avoid runs going bad
- Video Sharing - A way to facilitate video sharing of speedruns or partial speedruns via a video upload service such as Youtube
- Classic or Igavania - Make sure the SpeedRun Mode can be used in either the main game or the Classic Mode.
- Online Race - As long as it isn't too resource intensive or hard to implement an official race mode would be appreciated since speedrunning races are so common. The Online Challenge Mode stretch goal (@ $4 Million) seems to cover part of this but this would be through the entire castle (or Classic Mode) rather than special stages. As with normal speedrun races, the players shouldn't be able to interact with each other.
I was thinking about putting the ability to race/speedrun vs. people online on this list too. Is that something people would be interested? Or is that asking for too much? There's still going to be a chance to revisit/revise speedrun mode ideas once we know more about the game and get our hands on the beta, right? I don't see why not. At the end of the day, these are all suggestions not ultimatums. |
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jan 29, 2016 0:13:27 GMT -6
I think that sounds comprehensive enough.
Hm, I can think of one thing that might be useful. I don't know how exactly the save system of Bloodstained will work, but I believe it will have old fashion save points. What might be helpful in speedrun mode is auto saves at certain sections of the game, perhaps selected by the player, for the interest of safety and practice in the run. Your auto-saved run would be chronicled in separate saves in segments, so you could go back and practice a particularly rough spot.
Essentially, it's just a quality of life/convenience option for improving times without having to manually save in separate slots. If it's organized well within its own mode, they would be easily identifiable and mostly just streamline the process of optimizing your times for particular areas/the whole game.
I very much prefer traditional save room saves for the standard game, so perhaps a clear would be necessary to allow this particular aspect of speedrun mode, not necessarily speedrun mode itself.
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Astaroth
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Post by Astaroth on Jan 29, 2016 20:02:50 GMT -6
wanst there an igavania that had a time trial mode? i think it was aos or dos
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Post by jboogieg on Jan 29, 2016 21:57:26 GMT -6
wanst there an igavania that had a time trial mode? i think it was aos or dos They both had a timed boss rush where you could earn items but that was it is believe. |
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Astaroth
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Post by Astaroth on Jan 29, 2016 22:00:48 GMT -6
wasnt boss rush, you played through the game normally but itd record the playtime when you beat a boss, time attack was what i think it was called
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