Astaroth
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Post by Astaroth on Jan 24, 2016 23:45:18 GMT -6
i think its mainly cause many consider rondo to be part of igavania, so most of those features fall under the main game in some form, i think what people think of when they think classic mode is cv 1-4 and maybe bloodlines, i think moonstairing should be a feature though >P
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Post by crocodile on Jan 25, 2016 0:53:41 GMT -6
i think its mainly cause many consider rondo to be part of igavania, so most of those features fall under the main game in some form, i think what people think of when they think classic mode is cv 1-4 and maybe bloodlines, i think moonstairing should be a feature though >P I'm not sure I follow. In what way feature wise is Rondo of Blood similar to the Igavanias? The flow together plot wise but gameplay wise there isn't much of a link. Is it because of Richter Mode in SOTN (where he was given extra moves and mobility)?
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Astaroth
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Post by Astaroth on Jan 25, 2016 1:10:53 GMT -6
i think its mainly cause many consider rondo to be part of igavania, so most of those features fall under the main game in some form, i think what people think of when they think classic mode is cv 1-4 and maybe bloodlines, i think moonstairing should be a feature though >P I'm not sure I follow. In what way feature wise is Rondo of Blood similar to the Igavanias? The flow together plot wise but gameplay wise there isn't much of a link. Is it because of Richter Mode in SOTN (where he was given extra moves and mobility)? the fact its a similar visual style to sotn and 32bit, and most people outside of japan were only introduced to it well after sotn was out, even though its classic formula in any case i honestly think theyll go with 8 or 16bit graphic cause making the tilesets for that would take much less resources than creating 32 bit full rooms
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purifyweirdshard
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jan 25, 2016 12:58:05 GMT -6
Perhaps also because that was the first Castlevania game that Iga had some involvement in? But yeah, for me I consider Rondo a classicvania for sure. I see CV3 as the best of the classics, with Rondo being an outstanding evolution of it. A game just like jim described would be almost perfect, sans the 8-way stuff because...yeah you guys probably know by now I wasn't really into CV4 lol. Just as I mentioned in the "games I want but aren't happening thread", more classicvania games given treatment similar to The Adventure Rebirth is like, the best possible thing. A new/redone CV3/Rondo style game like that. The sprites don't need to be high res. Just do it.
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Post by Foffy on Jan 25, 2016 13:01:34 GMT -6
I wonder how they'd make the castle, which is the biggest of any of IGA's games, genuinely represented as a Classicvania design. Would it have a lives systems? Checkpoints? Continues? Pitfalls?
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Post by crocodile on Jan 25, 2016 13:28:33 GMT -6
So I think the main attributes that have been variable over the course of the Classicvania are below:
- Can you swap characters mid-stage (Castlevania III) or swap character only at the start of a stage/gameplay session (Rondo of Blood)
- Do you have a Limited Jump (most Classicvanias) or Fully Controllable Jump (Super Castlevania IV, all the Igavanias)
- Will there be Stairs (all Classicvanias) or no Stairs (All Igavanias)?
- If Stairs, can you jump on/off stairs (Rondo of Blood) or not (Other Classicvanias)?
- Upgradeable Weapons (Castlevania, Bloodlines) or Static Weapons (Other Classicvanias)
- Subweapons or Magic? Or Both? Character Dependent?
- If Subweapons then Items Crashes - Yes or No?
- Branching Pathways (Castlevania III, Rondo of Blood) or Linear Progression (Other Classicvanias)?
- If Branching Pathways then Alternate Stages - Yes or No?
- 8 Way Whip/Attacks ( Super Castlevania IV), 4 Way Attacks (Bloodlines), 2 Way Attacks (Other Classicvanias)?
The sense I'm getting based on this conversation (and since we know there will be multiple characters to play as), that Classic mode should emulate Castlevania III and Rondo of Blood as much as possible with quality of life improvements from Super Castlevania IV. Is that a correct assessment of majority opinion?
I'm not sure I follow. In what way feature wise is Rondo of Blood similar to the Igavanias? The flow together plot wise but gameplay wise there isn't much of a link. Is it because of Richter Mode in SOTN (where he was given extra moves and mobility)? the fact its a similar visual style to sotn and 32bit, and most people outside of japan were only introduced to it well after sotn was out, even though its classic formula in any case i honestly think theyll go with 8 or 16bit graphic cause making the tilesets for that would take much less resources than creating 32 bit full rooms I mean my assumption is that Classic Mode would be made of repurposed assets from the main/regular game. That makes way more sense than creating a whole new style or tileset.
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Post by jboogieg on Jan 25, 2016 14:04:40 GMT -6
I mean my assumption is that Classic Mode would be made of repurposed assets from the main/regular game. That makes way more sense than creating a whole new style or tileset. According to the description pretty sure that'll be the case.
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Post by ghaleon on Jan 25, 2016 14:38:48 GMT -6
I never played Super castlevania 4 until sometime after it was released because I was a poor kid and never had an SNES until they were near the end of their generation. But I was a gamer as long as I could remember and I had an NES early enough, and grew up with castlevania on it... I did think 3 was a better game. Yeah being able to whip in multiple directions was cool, but I got used to not being able to do so, not to mention the games were balanced around it, yeah swinging it around in a fluid motion was cool but I don't think it was ever useful for anything other than blocking fireballs and being silly. The graphics were cool but I never was that enamored with graphics back then, and I got it late so its graphics weren't too special anyway by then. 3 Just felt like a bigger game, with more stages, more selection, more challenge. I STILL think I never managed to clear one of the routes involving alucard in that game, maybe I did I don't remember. I just remember having alucard in my group and being stuck on some stage with a tower with falling blocks you have to climb up for a ridiculously long time...long after I could breeze thru the other routes.
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jan 25, 2016 16:48:54 GMT -6
Would it have a lives systems? PLEASE let me pick up little Miriam heads for 1-ups. D: crocodile , I would say that is the consensus, yes.
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Post by jim on Jan 25, 2016 16:57:02 GMT -6
I never played Super castlevania 4 until sometime after it was released because I was a poor kid and never had an SNES until they were near the end of their generation. But I was a gamer as long as I could remember and I had an NES early enough, and grew up with castlevania on it... I did think 3 was a better game. Yeah being able to whip in multiple directions was cool, but I got used to not being able to do so, not to mention the games were balanced around it, yeah swinging it around in a fluid motion was cool but I don't think it was ever useful for anything other than blocking fireballs and being silly. The graphics were cool but I never was that enamored with graphics back then, and I got it late so its graphics weren't too special anyway by then. 3 Just felt like a bigger game, with more stages, more selection, more challenge. Agreed. Don't get me wrong, the grapple mechanics and the 8 way whip (which I did use quite a bit) I thought were great improvements. But coming from CV3, in terms of game play, castle, story, and depth the game felt like a bit of a step backwards to me. The graphics in CV4 were ok, but I always thought they looked a little dull. There were certain parts and enemies (Death) that I thought looked amazing, but the game art as a whole was kind of... *blah*. Even the music wasn't that amazing. There were a couple tracks that stand out, but most of it was kind of ho-hum and other than Vampire Killer I don't know that there were any other "classic" tracks used and for what was supposed to be a "remake" of CV1 that felt kind of cheap. And the free motion whip I did not use at all. It was cute and kinda cool for about 3 seconds and then I completely forgot about it because I couldn't really find any situation in which it was truly useful. I STILL think I never managed to clear one of the routes involving alucard in that game, maybe I did I don't remember. I just remember having alucard in my group and being stuck on some stage with a tower with falling blocks you have to climb up for a ridiculously long time...long after I could breeze thru the other routes. That would be the stage with The Monster (Frankie) I believe.
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jan 25, 2016 17:16:13 GMT -6
jim/Ghaleon, thank you guys, glad I'm not alone. My thoughts on CV pretty much match jim's completely. The game overall had a drab look and feel to it.
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BloodyTears92
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Post by BloodyTears92 on Jan 25, 2016 18:53:07 GMT -6
I'm mostly expecting a linear arrangement of rooms like CV 1, Bloodlines and IV. If enough rooms could be re purposed I could see branching paths like Dracula's Curse and Rondo but that seems REALLY above and beyond; which would of course be awesome but I wont be angry if its just a purely linear platformer like 1, IV, Bloodlines or Chronicles. The fact that the composers have already committed to making 6 8-bit tracks just for the mode is more work than I would have expected.
As for the actual pre-IGA games I really love most of them, with Super IV and Rondo being my absolute favorites, Dracula's Curse, Bloodlines, Chronicles and the very first game are all also extremely good. Also, I really love Adventure Rebirth, which to me proved IGA can rock the old style too. The GB games: Adventure, Belmont's Revenge and Legends were the only weak ones and even they were enjoyable and had good music. Though Belmont's Revenge actually was pretty good now that I think on it,
And then there's Simon's Quest. I applaud its ambition and it gave us Bloody Tears...but its still aweful.
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Post by crocodile on Jan 29, 2016 14:57:19 GMT -6
Thinking about it, Castlevania: The Adventure ReBirth was one of the last games IGA produced for Konami and the last Classicvania he was involved with. I have a feeling that the Classic Mode of this game may take a lot from that game (six linear stages for example). I've heard good things about Castlevania: The Adventure ReBirth but I never got to play it myself. A full playthrough can be seen here. Did anyone here play it? How did you like it?
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jan 29, 2016 15:15:27 GMT -6
Yeah, I think I've mentioned it here a bit before. I thought it was great. I didn't play the original Gameboy game, though. It's probably the main reason I reget letting my Wii go.
It's very much a classic Castlevania game, though, and it's hard to imagine Bloodstained could be laid out as such. I'd certainly love it to be, though (power-ups, basic movement options, etc).
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Redogan
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Post by Redogan on Jan 29, 2016 16:35:19 GMT -6
Thinking about it, Castlevania: The Adventure ReBirth was one of the last games IGA produced for Konami and the last Classicvania he was involved with. I have a feeling that the Classic Mode of this game may take a lot from that game (six linear stages for example). I've heard good things about Castlevania: The Adventure ReBirth but I never got to play it myself. A full playthrough can be seen here. Did anyone here play it? How did you like it? I have both the original Castlevania: The Adventure on GameBoy and Castlevania: The Adventure Rebirth on Wii VC. I really enjoyed the game overall. -The difficulty is on par with most classic-vanias. -I enjoyed the "key" system being added from Rondo of Blood. You really have to consider whether or not to give up your sub-weapon for a key in order to access a new stage. -The music is really good. -I could take or leave the fireball whip upgrade system. I like the buff, but would have preferred for the whip to just become a flame whip. I would recommend it to anyone interested in classic style Castlevania games. On a related note, all three of the Re-birth games from Konami on the Wii VC are great. If you like Contra and Gradius, try out the Rebirth versions titled Contra Rebirth and Gradius Rebirth, respectively. They are really well done. On topic though, my favorite classic style Castlevania is probably Super Castlevania IV. At one point, I was good enough to beat it without dying. The best parts of it were the atmosphere (backgrounds and such), music, and PLAYER CONTROL. I felt like I had complete control over my character in SCV4. The only thing missing was the ability to jump off of stairs. I've probably played SCV4 more than any other classic-vania game. It would be great if the classic mode in Bloodstained allowed for great sense of control of the character while giving that side-scrolling boss-at-the-end-of-the-stage feel.
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Post by crocodile on Feb 1, 2016 2:02:21 GMT -6
It seems discussion here is kind of winding down and/or reaching something of a consensus. Below is what I will write up. Any objections? Anything reasonable I forgot to add? Thread: Classic Mode: (Realistic) Hopes, Dreams and DesiresSummary: We all came to support Bloodstained because we were huge fans of "Igavanias" and the gameplay they represent. Nonetheless, many here are also fans of the Classic Castlevania gameplay. Overall, most were big fans of Castlevania III: Dracula's Curse and Rondo of Blood with a strong appreciation for the quality of life improvements Super Castlevania IV brought. Castlevania: The Adventure Rebirth was also a poplar title. Each of these games, as well as other Classic Castlevania titles, all had their strong points we would like to see brought to Bloodstained's Classic Mode: - Three Playable Characters - Our assumption is that all three confirmed playable characters will be usable in every mode with their unique attributes/weapons/abilities. We hope this assumption is correct <3
- Character Swap - Some liked the character swap mechanic of Castlevania III: Dracula's Curse or Julius Mode in Dawn of Sorrow but that isn't a majority opinion. Choosing your character at the very beginning of the game or inbetween stages (ala Rondo of Blood) is also fine and probably simpler.
- Weapon and Jump Control - Many REALLY loved the degree of control you had over your jump and your whip (8 way attack) in Super Castlevania IV. As such, our preference is a classic game with a good, controllable jump and weapons that can strike in multiple directions. However, we are also aware of how that must fundamentally change level and enemy design. So if the type of classic game you really want to make requires a more "traditional" jump or weapon abilities that's ok too.
- Branching Paths - We liked the branching pathways and alternate stages that Rondo of Blood offered though we understand that may not be on the table since the Kickstarter described Classic Mode as having six set stages. If there are no alternate stages, we at least hope each stage will have multiple pathways you can play through.
- Stairs - Stairs are of course expected - hopefully you can interact with them well such as the ability to attack from stairs, the ability to jump onto and off of stairs easily, etc.
- Upgradeable Weapons - Multiple Classic Castlevanias have had the ability to upgrade your weapon by collecting power ups in a level. We hope this feature returns with some cool, new, nifty power-ups.
- Mini-Bosses - Mini-Bosses are cool so if possible we'd like to see them in addition to regular bosses.
- Sub-Weapons and Item Crashes - Sub-Weapons seem to have been deconfirmed for the main game but every Classic Castlevania has sub-weapons so the expectation is that something similar (though it doesn't have to be exactly a Sub-Weapon system) will be at least present in Classic Mode. Many were fans of item crashes so something similar in Bloodstained would be cool too.
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Clear
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Post by Clear on Feb 1, 2016 2:24:21 GMT -6
Just an idea I'm throwing out here. In the MSX version of Castlevania (Vampire Killer I think it was called?), there were keys scattered about each stage that were required in order to progress. I think this should be represented here but in a very limited way, like have just one (alternate) stage late in the game use this gimmick. What do you think? May add to a great dose of variety within Classic mode.
Besides all that, the write-up looks fine to me. Reading it makes me want to play Super Castlevania IV again and seriously this time.
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Pure Miriam
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Post by Pure Miriam on Nov 29, 2016 8:38:38 GMT -6
CLASSIC MODE
Here's my two cents. "NINTENDO HARD" OR FAKE DIFFICULTY?
"Nintendo Hard" is a gaming slang for a game that's really, really difficult, but (mostly) for the right reasons. The gameplay works, and there are no unfair spots, the game is hard and punishing, but it works good that way. "Fake Difficulty", at the other hand, is when a game is difficult by "wrong" reasons, such as limiting gameplay (jumps that can't be controlled mid-air, character can't duck or attack at any direction other than in front of it), unfair stages (playing with the cam to make enemies hidden, traps without any clue), arbitrary death spots (instant kills by spikes, holes, water, random spots of the scenario), among other things. NO SAVES? NO CONTINUES? NO MODERN GAMING ASPECTS?
Games nowadays have saves (autosaves, no less), tips, and many other things to make things easier. You want Classic Mode to be rid of EVERYTHING modern gaming offered us for the last three decades? For instance, six stages with 3 lives, no saves, no continues, no patting the head! Or you want at least something more XXI century, like passwords? That's all folks! This post was a thread before. It was merged with this thread, to not spread out the subject.
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Post by Redogan on Nov 29, 2016 9:30:58 GMT -6
I pretty much think the classic mode should be linear stages with a boss at the end-->mini-map intermission showing where you are and your goal-->next stage. I feel like you shouldn't be able to go back once you proceed to the next screen. Boss fights should drop an orb with a "Stage Clear" message. Equipment should be fixed from the beginning. An example, would be that you are given the Crystal Longsword and that's all you get for the duration of the Classic Mode. It would be cool if candles/lanterns could be busted to drop various shards to give you, basically, subweapon powers. But you should only be able to have one at a time. Boss health should be displayed for Classic Mode.
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Nov 29, 2016 18:29:35 GMT -6
Classic mode thread revival! Check out crocodile's bullets above for the summary we arrived at before.
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