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Post by purifyweirdshard on May 26, 2020 18:21:23 GMT -6
Just did some quick/additional research to what I already follow in a response to a question that I often see: did this game sell/do well? And is it enough to warrant a series/sequels? Short answer: absolutely yes. Long answer: I track and follow this stuff myself, because I'm really into knowing the success of the game and how far it's going. So here are some sales estimations - After just a week of the Steam release, it hit the 500k-1m owners mark. That's still the range it has on Steam Spy/steamdb, but since it's been a year later, probably closer to the 1m side now. Every once in a while, I go over there to see if it's past that yet. steamdb.info/app/692850/graphs/For PS4, we have things like gamstat: gamstat.com/games/Bloodstained_Ritual_of_the_Night/Currently, that's at about 310k, but it's players of the game rather than sales/owners. That could be lower or higher, but it's a rough idea of where it is compared to other things. The Switch version, it famously outsold all the other versions in the UK, so it's safe to assume it's at least somewhere around where the PS4 sales are, if not higher. We'll give that another 310k. The Xbox and GOG sales will make up the smallest part, and I have no data at all on that, but I'll throw out maybe 50k combined between them. Add all this together, you get (conservatively) 1.17m - 1.67m for Ritual of the Night. With them being more independent now and not Konami salary workers, the game was probably pretty profitable and perhaps most importantly, far and away the single highest selling game Iga has ever made. These numbers are all I could dig up for older Castlevania game sales, from a user on neogaf (this does not seem to include re-releases and reprints mind you): My response to these numbers (I just saw them when I was looking around for the data on this post) was basically disbelief. I'd seen something over 1m for SotN before, and I think that may at least be the case when you count PS1 OG and GH, XBL and PSN re-releases. But I'm not done, let's look at some other stuff related to this and sales/success for this project: CotM. This game in its first 10 days was celebrated to receive 100k downloads officially by the Inti Creates social media accounts. It was at that time the best selling game on the Switch eshop. A subsequent tweet with a graph broke that down further to: Platform sales: Switch – 56% Steam – 19% PlayStation 4 – 17% 3DS – 4% PlayStation Vita – 4% Xbox's version wasn't released yet at that time. Currently, SteamSpy estimates 100k-200k for CotM on Steam alone. steamdb.info/app/838310/graphs/If that's still around 19% of the sales, then Switch probably has something more like 300-500k, PS4 itself a 100k, etc. So, CotM now in total would be more like 500k-1m by itself. What's funny in comparison to CotM is something priced exactly the same that has probably sold about as many copies: Iga's Back Pack. I think it's entirely possible that this $10 DLC sold to around 500k of Ritual of the Night's user base, which would put both its cost and sales similar to the $10 CotM. Now, Curse of the Moon is an Inti Creates product and Iga/ArtPlay gets those profits only in part, but it's similarly the case with 505 Games, WayForward and others for Ritual of the Night + paid DLC. In either case, though, a better situation than with Konami. Konami was generally never impressed with Castlevania's sales under Iga. So, the tl;dr here is that Bloodstained as a project has been *very* successful and its sales are impressive. My prediction pre-release was that it would hit 2 million, and I don't think we're far off. I was serious then and I am now, but I got just laughs and doubters back then ;p edit: I should note, I think I'm lowballing Switch a bit. The gap for CotM platform sales there is huge - and I doubt RotN's sales are 3x higher on Switch than the others, but probably a good bit higher than the 310k I give it here. Something like this itself could push it to 2m, though.
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Post by hyugakojiro on May 27, 2020 16:29:20 GMT -6
Glad to hear the game likely did well commercially. As far as a sequel goes they'll have to finish the DLC first before they can start working on that. I doubt they'll finish it up this year but we'll see. Would love to play some coop or classic mode soon but got enough games in my backlog to tie me over.
It will be interesting to see what IGA does with the story and playable characters for a potential sequel. Will we see a more mature Miriam or a new cast of characters possibly related to the cast of the first game? Also hoping Way Forward will take a larger role in the sequel. They did a very good job salvaging the game in what little time they had so having them on board from the start would be great.
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Post by rav4ishing on May 27, 2020 23:08:24 GMT -6
Glad to hear the game likely did well commercially. As far as a sequel goes they'll have to finish the DLC first before they can start working on that. I doubt they'll finish it up this year but we'll see. Would love to play some coop or classic mode soon but got enough games in my backlog to tie me over. It will be interesting to see what IGA does with the story and playable characters for a potential sequel. Will we see a more mature Miriam or a new cast of characters possibly related to the cast of the first game? Also hoping Way Forward will take a larger role in the sequel. They did a very good job salvaging the game in what little time they had so having them on board from the start would be great. If IGA is set on getting his business going, I think the lessons learned will influence the sequel. At least I hope it does.
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Post by alexcalvo on Jun 10, 2020 7:06:33 GMT -6
Looks like you were a little over optimistic. They just posted this on Facebook.
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jun 10, 2020 10:17:59 GMT -6
Lol nah they're being modest, I think they're just catching up to this (as you can see the date on that picture you posted is exactly two months ago) and 1 is the milestone you celebrate. Steam and PS4 combined by themselves are likely over 1 million from those links I show.
Remember - the Steam number hit 500k-1m in a week, and the charts there show a graph of steady increase of a following since then. There are 310k PS4 accounts with the game.
Regardless of how close or far off this is, let's not pretend that announcing 1m is reflective of anything bad or that they were under estimate. Iga's video says otherwise, and refer to the sales of his previous games above.
edit: Oh and it's probable that their sales numbers don't include backers. My figures would
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Post by RichterB on Jun 10, 2020 11:14:04 GMT -6
Excellent post! I was just wondering about this the other day. I guess the only question I have is, how do all the setbacks in terms of reworking the Switch game and subsequent delays on the DLC affect finances? Like, are they draining more money than they're taking in at this late a stage? ...Still waiting on that Classic Mode announcement for DLC. As long as that one gets fulfilled, I'll be happy.
PS: Look at my "64" boys! Together they make the top three of Castlevania sales at 400k! Let's go!
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Post by Yän on Jun 13, 2020 13:54:56 GMT -6
Well now we know that they surpassed a million sales. Cool post to put this into perspective!
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Post by dareka on Jun 26, 2020 22:01:46 GMT -6
Excellent post! I was just wondering about this the other day. I guess the only question I have is, how do all the setbacks in terms of reworking the Switch game and subsequent delays on the DLC affect finances? Like, are they draining more money than they're taking in at this late a stage? ...Still waiting on that Classic Mode announcement for DLC. As long as that one gets fulfilled, I'll be happy. PS: Look at my "64" boys! Together they make the top three of Castlevania sales at 400k! Let's go! They're a drain in as much as fixing the game post launch on the Switch might not significantly increase the player base, but it's more than offset by the game's overall sales. It would be a just small group of programmers and artists that worked on it. 505 got a great deal: the game cost more money to make than they hoped, but it's still a lot less than financing the entire game themselves and it's sold over a million copies, and like purifyweirdshard said: it'll likely sell quite a bit more by the end of it's virtual shelf life. Honestly, those numbers mean the game was a hit with people in general, and not just with the 60,000+ backers the project had. It means that there's a real market for these games, even with younger gamers who may not have experienced the originals, and despite there being many other Metroid-style games. My take-away is that while it may not be the size of the AAA game market, there's a very healthy demand for this kind of "old-fashioned" game, and it's looking stable, profitable, and lower-risk.
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jun 26, 2020 22:05:18 GMT -6
Indeed, and IGA talks about sales and other very interesting things more here in this Famitsu/IGN Japan interview:
Topics include upcoming content, sales details, stretch goals, next games, what he's looking forward to, etc. The tweet thread has replies with translation summaries.
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Post by dareka on Jun 27, 2020 0:13:47 GMT -6
This was the most interesting part for me:
――では、 “ローグライクモード”の代わりとして、5月から6月にかけてアップデートで追加された“ランダマイザー”はどういった経緯だったのですか?
五十嵐:いまのシステムだとランダムのマップ配置換えはかなりきびしくて、これを作るためには根本から作り直さないとダメということが判明したんです。そこでもともと考えていた、“ランダマイザー”に変更させていただきました。日本ではそこまでメジャーではないですが、海外だとけっこうメジャーなんです。これであれば対応可能ということで、申し訳ないですが、変更させていただきました。ただ、(“ローグライクモード”に関しては)あきらめきれない部分ではあるので、いまも研究だけは進めています。今回は苦渋の判断でこういう形になりました。
So, how did the randomizer mode that was added in the May to June updates materialize as a replacement to the "rogue-like" mode?
IGA: It became clear that our current game engine would have to be redone from scratch in order to cope with random room placement, so we opted to do the "randomizer" - which is the feature I'd originally thought of 1 - instead. [Randomizers] are not well-known in Japan, but they are very well-known overseas2. This made me think it could somehow serve as a replacement; so, with a heavy heart, we made the change. That said (as far as the "rogue-like" mode is concerned), it's a feature I just can't bring myself to give up on, so we're still doing researching on it3. [Changing it to a randomizer] was a very bitter pill to swallow.
1. Not 100% sure, but this seems to imply that the randomizer is the idea he'd originally pitched as a strech goal. 2. This was mistranslated on the Twitter thread as "this wasn't a big deal in Japan but caused some fuss in America." He's saying that randomizers aren't popular in Japan but they are over here. He's not referring to any fuss. 3. Does not imply that they're doing it for Ritual of the Night, but it's a strong hint that we might see the feature in a future installment in the series.
... damn ... should I do the whole interview?
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jun 27, 2020 0:46:32 GMT -6
Up to you - what I gathered from Google translation is pretty close to what you got there, and just taking what I know and fitting it into context. It's quite a bit, and yeah I thought the Roguelike bit was interesting.
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Post by dareka on Jun 27, 2020 1:51:55 GMT -6
Up to you - what I gathered from Google translation is pretty close to what you got there, and just taking what I know and fitting it into context. It's quite a bit, and yeah I thought the Roguelike bit was interesting. Well, a new interview on Curse of the Moon 2 just came out, so I think I'll do that one first: game.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/interview/1261747.htmlInteresting tidbits: 1. It picks up at the " regular" ending of the first game. 2. Using two players allows you to reach places you normally wouldn't be able to reach without different characters. 3. There are story changes in each subsequent playthrough. 4. They're still going with the "alternate dimension" explanation for the story, so this is in fact a different, presumably(?) good Dominique 5. The original Curse of the Moon far exceeded their expectations and has sold more than 500k units. 6. If the Curse of the Moon 2 sells as well as the first one, yes, there probably will be a third installment. 7. There is a campfire scene between stages where you'll see Hachi without his Mech. 8. All the returning characters have been powered-up, especially Alfred 9. Hachi is the most OP character in the game. Aizu-san wanted him nerfed, but the staff protested saying " we won't be able to clear the game without Hachi!"
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Post by phantasos on Jun 29, 2020 3:13:01 GMT -6
This was the most interesting part for me: ――では、 “ローグライクモード”の代わりとして、5月から6月にかけてアップデートで追加された“ランダマイザー”はどういった経緯だったのですか?
五十嵐:いまのシステムだとランダムのマップ配置換えはかなりきびしくて、これを作るためには根本から作り直さないとダメということが判明したんです。そこでもともと考えていた、“ランダマイザー”に変更させていただきました。日本ではそこまでメジャーではないですが、海外だとけっこうメジャーなんです。これであれば対応可能ということで、申し訳ないですが、変更させていただきました。ただ、(“ローグライクモード”に関しては)あきらめきれない部分ではあるので、いまも研究だけは進めています。今回は苦渋の判断でこういう形になりました。 So, how did the randomizer mode that was added in the May to June updates materialize as a replacement to the "rogue-like" mode?IGA: It became clear that our current game engine would have to be redone from scratch in order to cope with random room placement, so we opted to do the "randomizer" - which is the feature I'd originally thought of 1 - instead. [Randomizers] are not well-known in Japan, but they are very well-known overseas2. This made me think it could somehow serve as a replacement; so, with a heavy heart, we made the change. That said (as far as the "rogue-like" mode is concerned), it's a feature I just can't bring myself to give up on, so we're still doing researching on it3. [Changing it to a randomizer] was a very bitter pill to swallow.1. Not 100% sure, but this seems to imply that the randomizer is the idea he'd originally pitched as a strech goal. 2. This was mistranslated on the Twitter thread as "this wasn't a big deal in Japan but caused some fuss in America." He's saying that randomizers aren't popular in Japan but they are over here. He's not referring to any fuss. 3. Does not imply that they're doing it for Ritual of the Night, but it's a strong hint that we might see the feature in a future installment in the series.... damn ... should I do the whole interview? Go right ahead if you have the time.
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Post by Brainiac on Jun 29, 2020 8:33:19 GMT -6
4. They're still going with the "alternate dimension" explanation for the story, so this is in fact a different, presumably(?) good Dominique ... 8. All the returning characters have been powered-up, especially Alfred <pops fresh popcorn awaiting the show between purifyweirdshard and Mr. Welldone >
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