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Post by JeffCross on Jan 23, 2018 12:16:44 GMT -6
Pure Miriam I can respect that now how do you feel about refining items?
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Post by Pure Miriam on Jan 24, 2018 1:56:43 GMT -6
JeffCrossTo be fair, i'm conflicted about refining because refining is intended to make the whole forging process a bit longer and /or complicated. This is a good opportunity to explain something i think about the whole forging process. The thing is that, when you look at forge/crafting, you have two basic paths to follow: either forging is nothing but a way to get premade itens or it is a way to get real customized itens. What i'm trying to say is that, when you remove the plot, the visuals and such and look at forging for it's bare bones, you can see this: Path for premade itens: there is a finite number of gears you can forge, and they are all premade. They can't be customized on their stats, color or effects. So, forging is just a more complicated and convoluted path to get what you would get anyways if the game didn't had forging. This is how Curse of Darkness did. Path to customized itens: you can really customize stuff while forging. THe materials / refining method / stuff that you use, alters the gear color, stats, effects and such, something more akin to MMORPGs. This gives a much bigger purpose to forging. So, in my view, i think that refining, grabbing stuff to extract usefull stuff from them, only makes real sense if you use a system where you can really customize gears while forging them. If not, refining turns into just "one more step" to achieve a premade gear. Now, regarding all that, i'm conflicted if Bloodstained needs a complex forging system or if the game would benefit more of a simple forging system, since the game is already full of stuff by itself. I don't know if i made any sense haha.
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Post by JeffCross on Jan 24, 2018 10:51:01 GMT -6
Pure Miriam, you make perfect sense... I love customized items, or at least have more powerful forged items then found items (save for the ultra rare unique item/armor/weapon drops). I love making items from those MMORPG's but I understand what you mean about those weapons being convoluted... (Though I personally don't want the color to be effected, we should be able to dye items ourselves). but again this type of system is a wish, I would be fine if the forging mechanic is not so in depth... as long as we have enough weapons/armor/items to keep us busy... and I would never want it mandatory... just something for us to do in the game... Talking about things to do in the game what if we have cooking in the game.... alchemy was born in the kitchen right?
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Post by Pure Miriam on Jan 24, 2018 11:36:51 GMT -6
JeffCross I believe the game can have some kind of system that would please everyone, for sure. About cooking, i totally disagree. I don't want to make anyone here pissed at me, but i can't see any kind of cooking system at this game, unless it has a really good explanation for it to exists. It just doesn't fit. At least not for me. If "cooking" means creating potions and obviously-magical-alchemy-shining-stuff to heal, i'm all for it. If it is cooking to create cakes and croissants, than i don't think it fits in the game at all.
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Post by JeffCross on Jan 24, 2018 12:02:19 GMT -6
the thing is, food has been part of iga-vanias more and more... he added parfaits, cakes, crossest, spaghetti... they don't even heal much, but iga loves putting them in the game (well I don't know if he likes putting them in the game but it ends up in his games a lot).
and as I said Alchemy started in the kitchen... it would make less sense for it not to be in the game... (but with or without a cooking system I am fine ether way). because "food" has been a staple in iga-vanias from the beginning... I believe it will be in the game this time too... but it would be nice if we can cook them and add different/stronger buffs to the food... the system doesn't even have to be a kitchen, it can still be an alchemy lab.
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jan 24, 2018 12:07:17 GMT -6
Pure Miriam how does crafting work without recipes? To make stuff you definitely need stuff. I mean like...you said you didn't like them but, how do you make things without there being ingredients? I have a few ideas on what you might mean but I'm not sure.
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Post by Pure Miriam on Jan 24, 2018 12:35:24 GMT -6
the thing is, food has been part of iga-vanias more and more... he added parfaits, cakes, crossest, spaghetti... they don't even heal much, but iga loves putting them in the game (well I don't know if he likes putting them in the game but it ends up in his games a lot). and as I said Alchemy started in the kitchen... it would make less sense for it not to be in the game... (but with or without a cooking system I am fine ether way). because "food" has been a staple in iga-vanias from the beginning... I believe it will be in the game this time too... but it would be nice if we can cook them and add different/stronger buffs to the food... the system doesn't even have to be a kitchen, it can still be an alchemy lab. I totally agree with you regarding food and i EXPECT food to be there in the game. I just think that cooking may be a bit off. Or maybe, adding too much things in the game? I don't know. If the game has it, it will be okay, i think, but i don't really know.
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Post by Pure Miriam on Jan 24, 2018 12:57:01 GMT -6
Pure Miriam how does crafting work without recipes? To make stuff you definitely need stuff. I mean like...you said you didn't like them but, how do you make things without there being ingredients? I have a few ideas on what you might mean but I'm not sure. When i said i dislike recipes, i was talking about blueprints. Something like "You need a script of how to do X, in order to do X". I wasn't talking about ingredients. In portuguese (my main language) "recipe" sounds like "receita" and "receita" means like, that list of things you need to bake a cake, you know?
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jan 24, 2018 13:16:13 GMT -6
Okay, I think I see what you mean now. You don't want the game to require you to get a recipe to make the thing, and rather be able to make the thing by just having the things to make it in your inventory. I would agree with that, for the most part. In essence, it would be like trying to do Alucard's SotN spells without buying the scrolls to see how to do them. You -can- cast those spells, granted you have the MP. It would be lame if it all required lists, since that just makes it a glorified linear quest system.
If it's all completely open and no recipe lists are required to craft (or crafting skills/levels/upgrades), to avoid a potential downside they'd just have to be careful of ingredient placement so as to avoid people finding out all the recipes on the internet and making things way sooner than they're normally supposed to. Were that to happen, the game would very soon end up being for most people: "grind x drops from enemy early in the game, make overpowered weapon, ignore the crafting system for 70% of the game because you got that, make stuff end game if you feel like it, beat the game".
We don't want that - hopefully crafting stays a balanced and paced experience, while also giving the occasional burst of what might seem a little like a sequence break in power increase, but not in truth. Otherwise we would end up with the same or worse situation as SotN where everybody has Crissaegrims, except earlier lol.
I think that perhaps instead of required recipes, a "crafting level" or NPC training might be a thing, or maybe you need something like a philosopher's stone or the Loagaeth book to make higher and higher tiered items.
As for cooking, it seems a waste for crafting/alchemy to be a focus with food not having its own crafting system, which would be cooking. Food has always been a part of these games' legacy so it just makes sense to me. It would be a much simpler process, I imagine - no fancy requirements, levels etc.
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JeffCross
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Post by JeffCross on Jan 24, 2018 13:27:49 GMT -6
Pure Miriam how does crafting work without recipes? To make stuff you definitely need stuff. I mean like...you said you didn't like them but, how do you make things without there being ingredients? I have a few ideas on what you might mean but I'm not sure. I don't know if he means too many "recipes" I personally would not mind recipes... but I would like them to be basic, then have us experiment with forging "technique" to make special types of weapons, like maybe... snake skin + venom + a magi stone = snake whip (has a chance to poison). or have a recipe for a very special weapon like Valkyrie feathers + holy essence + magi crystal + angel's pray (a scroll with an angel's pray on it) = Great Holy Sword (deadly to undead). those recipes would be awesome... and once used it can go into a forging guide or something. enough with cooking... what about strengthening weapons and armor? what if we could make equipment stronger by adding to the weapon/armor? but if we do that would it be infinite or should there be a limit? like maybe forging points... or something? (EDIT: Oh if that is what Pure Miriam means than yeah I would not like locking the ability to make weapon behind recipes. I agree they should be around but not necessary)
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Post by Pure Miriam on Jan 24, 2018 14:53:37 GMT -6
purifyweirdshardYou can easily avoid the overpowered problem of not having recipes, by restricting materials that would create overpowered weapons to late in the game. If you need a "Silf feather Soul Stone" to create a Crissaegrim type of weapon, just put that thing obtainable only close to the end game.
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