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Post by Squirrel Taskmaster on Jul 22, 2019 11:07:24 GMT -6
Nerfing the endgame stuff is no good, but I can't really disagree with the changes to Welcome Party and Dullahammer Head. That said, rather than an across the board chop job on them, changing their growth so that they start weaker but can end up in the original place at 9/9 might be a better solution. I'm a bit torn on Heretical Grinder, since it is really strong for the early game... but at the same time it's a very important tool for a non-NG+ run if you want to get the first Zangetsu medal. Maybe they could even go another route instead of nerfing, by reducing the drop rates for the strongest/most overused shards, or increase the price to rank them up. Of course though, this is a single-player game, so whether anything seriously needs to be nerfed from a standpoint of difficulty, is kinda questionable.
Even my own hopes for some changes to things are based on a desire for variety and broader range of equally good choices so players get to fiddle around with more shard and weapon loadouts, rather than thinking the game is too easy and should be turned into Hitting Yourself in the Genitals With a Hammer: The Game. There are so many interesting abilities I would prefer that people weren't all inevitably slotting into the well-traveled ruts of the attacks that are obviously far stronger or have massive utility. Like for a while, I adjusted Miriam's look to be kind of like the girl in The Exorcist, and I ran around using nothing but Acid Spray to barf everything to death, that was funny. Hell, I'd love it if there was an option to randomize the base attack power of every shard when you started a new game, so you have a heavy reason to do something novel each playthrough.
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Post by Ciel on Jul 22, 2019 14:23:13 GMT -6
A lot of people here are confusing balance and difficulty. Nerfs are about balance: if some shards are substantially more powerful then this means that only those shards are actually useful and the rest are just trash. So the point of the nerfs is to increase the number of viable shards. In other words, it adds variety to gameplay and increases the number of viable strategies. That's not how it works in this game. As I said in another thread, every shard is actually viable depending on your playstyle. For example I found Welcome Company to be completely useless for me in my NG Hard playthrough, because I wanted to one shot everything and that shard isn't focused on burst damage. Yet here we have a lot of people claiming that that shard is OP and should be nerfed. You can't say that there are only a couple of useful shards when in reality every shard deals tons of damage and you just have to choose the ones you prefer. Stop saying things like "nerfing shards will force users to change their playstyle!" because unless you're nerfing to the point of those shards being completely useless, which is counter-productive, the players aren't going to completely change the way they're playing the game if they feel comfortable enough with it. Or what, are you saying we have to nerf to the ground every OP build out there until there are none of them and the game transforms into a completely boring mess of no fun allowed builds?
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Post by third on Jul 22, 2019 16:02:24 GMT -6
I am not saying that, and have never said that. I've never said anything even similar to that, so no problem: you got it.
This whole argument confuses me no end. I can understand protesting nerfs in an MMO, where you devote lots and lots of time to building up a certain character around a certain playstyle. Here it doesn't make any sense. No one has said anything about taking your toys away, the point is to try and make it so that all of your toys are fun and not just the gold-plated ones.
"But I love my gold-plated button of winning!" you say. That's fine: if you have a favorite weapon that can one-shot everything, and they reduce the damage on it, then you just reduce the difficulty. Now you're back to one-shotting everything with your favorite weapon, just like you were doing before.
Why is this a problem? Nothing has changed for you in this scenario, protesting that is just pointless yelling. The game has only changed for people who want to use different weapons, but don't want to feel like they're limiting themselves in order to do so.
All right it's not quite that simple, balance changes aren't all just about tweaking damage, but as with any time a game is made or changed or expanded on in any way: you trust that the devs are trying to make the best game they can, that they don't actually hate you, and you look forward to seeing what they have in store for the future.
Finally: "Or what, are you saying we have to nerf to the ground every OP build out there until there are none of them" ... Well I haven't been saying that, but: that would be a positive change, by definition. Maybe you've forgotten what the 'O' in OP stands for.
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Post by anonthemouse on Jul 22, 2019 16:09:27 GMT -6
A lot of people here are confusing balance and difficulty. Nerfs are about balance: if some shards are substantially more powerful then this means that only those shards are actually useful and the rest are just trash. So the point of the nerfs is to increase the number of viable shards. In other words, it adds variety to gameplay and increases the number of viable strategies. It does also increase the difficulty, since the previously OP stuff is no longer OP. But if that makes things too hard, or if you just like being OP, then you can always play on a lower difficulty setting. That's not a problem. I'd have to disagree with you there. The difference is merely semantic. "Balance" presumes some objective level of difficulty that the game should be at, and that anything above or below that point is "out of balance". Difficulty simply refers to how much effort is required to progress through the game is in its current state. There's no confusion. If changes are made only to make the player less powerful, then this has indeed made the game more difficult. Making strong shards weaker doesn't make other shards suddenly better. They remain just as difficult to use - in that they retain the same amount of difficulty to make progress when using them. There are not "more viable strategies", simply fewer alternatives to a less desirable progression curve. As to the second point - lower difficulties must exist to be switched to.
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Post by gradius on Jul 22, 2019 16:47:50 GMT -6
Could the next update be OPTIONAL, or something? To be applied only from those who want the nerfs? Since nothing else was given to us (info), outside the "balancing" outtake, it is safe to assume that no extra content is going to arrive, together with it... So, why not? At least as a temporary "solution" to the whole matter, which has divided all communities across all platforms... Release the patch standalone, for the individual gamer's discretion to apply over their game; or not? At least for the PC using crowd...
If and when multiplayer arrives, then we can return to this topic, again.
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Post by Ciel on Jul 22, 2019 17:15:33 GMT -6
This whole argument confuses me no end. I can understand protesting nerfs in an MMO, where you devote lots and lots of time to building up a certain character around a certain playstyle. Here it doesn't make any sense. No one has said anything about taking your toys away, the point is to try and make it so that all of your toys are fun and not just the gold-plated ones.
Explain to me then: how nerfing the toys that are fun is going to make the toys that weren't fun before suddenly fun to use? Think for a moment: nothing changed with the other toys, what you thought was boring before is still boring after you lost your fun toys. That was what I was trying to explain on my first post, you're not accomplishing anything with this but making people pissed off for literally nothing to gain at all. And that's before talking about the fact that... The game has only changed for people who want to use different weapons, but don't want to feel like they're limiting themselves in order to do so.
you're just plain wrong here. Every shard (well, except the joke ones of course) is actually viable, and you can comfortably enough play the game using whatever you want, even on NG Hard. As I said earlier, I never used Welcome Company and a lot of the shards being nerfed here, exactly because I never found them to be useful for how I was playing the game, and I never felt like I was limiting myself. It just boils down to how every player is going to play this game, and now everyone is possibly going to have less options now because for some reason they decided that a couple of shards were too powerful. Great! I never used them before and now I have even more reason to never fucking use them in this game. Well I haven't been saying that, but: that would be a positive change, by definition. Maybe you've forgotten what the 'O' in OP stands for.
Sure! Let's start by removing Accelerator, Augment Gold, Recycle Hat, Diamond Bullets, Rhava Bural and Gebel Sunglasses from the game! Because unless you nerf those items to the fucking ground so they become literally useless they are ALWAYS going to be OP! Forget about the point of every IGAvania game when by the end of the game you're basically bulldozing through the castle with no mercy for every moving being! Or what? Are you saying you want to HAVE FUN while doing so and there's no problem with that because it's a SINGLE PLAYER game? Oh my, but we can't have that! Here, your game now is a borefest of "balanced" items for the sake of being "balanced" even though it doesn't matter for a single player game, when there are no fun builds because it's 2019 and in this world pos-Dark Souls, every game is completely forbidden to have any unbalanced powers for reasons. And remember guys: NO FUN ALLOWED!
Honestly, we should just agree to disagree and leave it at that.
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Post by gradius on Jul 23, 2019 2:15:15 GMT -6
Excellent arguments. I myself, didn't even use Rhavas, but i hate the idea those who use them and like them, to lose their fave toy('s performance). I started using Welcome company at 3/4 of normal, before the endgame. But i particularly liked the way it operates.
I am now midway hard and i assure you, nerfing those, won't offer any challenge at all. Instead, nerfs will only piss off those who like them. I don't even use Dullas in Hard, because i want to level my Bloodbringer. But i don't want other people's favorite pet, to take a dump, because of random saltbags with guilty-issues.
No challenge will be added. A flash of void ray here, a barrage of chisels there, a hint of a time-stop on that other screen... Game is OP and is MEANT to be OP, by fundamental design (shield rod? power of sire? duplicators? whatever nice gimmick used to exist, in the good old days?). Those yelling for nerfs, are usually clueless newcomers to Iga's creations, not old, returning fans. It is a shame to dumben down gameplay, because they can't restrict themselves (abusing "overpowered" stuff), be creative (try other skills/shards/items), or accept other people are having fun, while they choke upon their modern gaming mentality and endless syndromes (mostly, the "guilty-pleasure" one)...
People, be considerate! Have your fun, without pursuing a way which leads to the destruction of the fun others have! You don't need to break other people's toys, if you don't enjoy yours... Just saying.
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Post by anonthemouse on Jul 23, 2019 3:21:01 GMT -6
The only argument I can't really agree to is the "single-player game" one.
Multiplayer is an intended feature of B:RotN. Has been since the Kickstarter campaign. It's just not finished yet. However, multiple multiplayer modes are coming. The stretch goals included a co-op mode, online challenge mode, and asynchronous online multiplayer. At least one of those is likely to be competitive. The existence of a built-in speedrun mode also implies that competitive speedrunning is being treated as an intended part of the game's model - thought the potential to invalidate old runs means that one can be counted both for and against.
The thing is, I'm not convinced that the game is unbalanced by these items and shards. People have asserted it, but I haven't seen any real evidence. What I have seen is a lot of Twitch playthroughs, and my own experience. Some people struggle until they use Welcome Company and the like. Some people struggle even with those supposedly overpowered options. Some people progress through the game just fine without them. Do I have hard numbers to back up my experience? No...but what I have seen suggests to me what my common sense agrees with. Different people have different skill levels. The game is balanced around the classic Igavania games, not modern "hardcore" Metroidvanias full of precision sections and high skill walls like Hollow Knight and others. So maybe the game is easy...or maybe a lot of veteran players are just good at the genre by now.
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Post by gradius on Jul 23, 2019 6:32:07 GMT -6
The only argument I can't really agree to is the "single-player game" one. Multiplayer is an intended feature of B:RotN. Has been since the Kickstarter campaign. It's just not finished yet. However, multiple multiplayer modes are coming. The stretch goals included a co-op mode, online challenge mode, and asynchronous online multiplayer. At least one of those is likely to be competitive. The existence of a built-in speedrun mode also implies that competitive speedrunning is being treated as an intended part of the game's model - thought the potential to invalidate old runs means that one can be counted both for and against. The thing is, I'm not convinced that the game is unbalanced by these items and shards. People have asserted it, but I haven't seen any real evidence. What I have seen is a lot of Twitch playthroughs, and my own experience. Some people struggle until they use Welcome Company and the like. Some people struggle even with those supposedly overpowered options. Some people progress through the game just fine without them. Do I have hard numbers to back up my experience? No...but what I have seen suggests to me what my common sense agrees with. Different people have different skill levels. The game is balanced around the classic Igavania games, not modern "hardcore" Metroidvanias full of precision sections and high skill walls like Hollow Knight and others. So maybe the game is easy...or maybe a lot of veteran players are just good at the genre by now.They aren't unbalanced. I seriously doubt those protesting FOR nerfs, actually went past Normal, or felt like collecting/upgrading other shards. Why bother upping a Welcome Company on you, when half a circular mouse move with Void Ray on, cleans off an entire screen and drops a Hard Boss in like 0,5 seconds (craftwork)? Even random, generic shards, when maxed, are far more "op", than flying daggers, chaser/true arrows, company, etc. I am now 3/4 in hard and not even considering using things, like Dullas/portraits. But i hate the idea those who do, need and like their current functionality, to lose their useful "toy". Besides, overpowered, in this type of game, i believe is fundamental to both its design and gameplay. Sotn was full of "unfair" things, anyway. Somebody can opt to use them; or not. Exactly how the game is currently, no balance is going to come out of this; only those used to this playstyle, are going to be severely inconvenienced. And it is only a matter of time, since devs caved-in, before a huge list of pretty much EVERYTHING, is issued to be nerfed, later down the road. Starting on that path, is very dangerous, plus it can only have a domino effect.
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jul 23, 2019 7:54:41 GMT -6
Sure! Let's start by removing Accelerator, Augment Gold, Recycle Hat, Diamond Bullets, Rhava Bural and Gebel Sunglasses from the game! Because unless you nerf those items to the fucking ground so they become literally useless they are ALWAYS going to be OP! Forget about the point of every IGAvania game when by the end of the game you're basically bulldozing through the castle with no mercy for every moving being! Or what? Are you saying you want to HAVE FUN while doing so and there's no problem with that because it's a SINGLE PLAYER game? Oh my, but we can't have that! Here, your game now is a borefest of "balanced" items for the sake of being "balanced" even though it doesn't matter for a single player game, when there are no fun builds because it's 2019 and in this world pos-Dark Souls, every game is completely forbidden to have any unbalanced powers for reasons. And remember guys: NO FUN ALLOWED! You're making this about something it isn't here with a very exaggerated slippery slope argument (and you're not the only one), where in truth we're probably looking at a handful of shards that are still powerful doing slightly less damage. The extremely powerful late game stuff (which make this game like SotN, which gradius is talking about), aren't being touched. The game's design intention is clearly to have the player be very strong the longer they play it, as always, but not immediately strong during the first couple of hours to where the options to explore and upgrade otherwise are diminished. That's contrary to the *fun* a lot of people want out of these games. I wanted to like other things, myself, but Welcome Company was (and still is, even 50 hours in) so good that I just ignore everything else. That's the point to focus on - what is VERY good right now should and most likely will remain good, and it just being "good" will allow other things some time for experimentation by the average/most players. Some of the strongest things in the game being also the earliest/most mundane and obvious finds is not particularly good. I'm the average player, I don't level up everything and I play through the Igavania games roughly 1.5x usually. I never quite get through an entire NG+ or do the harder difficulties (I just don't like grinding), but I probably will this time around. The majority experience with the game is to use the most obviously powerful things, or what other people tell them are good, beat it once and leave/move on. This is the playthrough that you have to consider as the "main" one, it's what's reviewed, what's remembered and what everyone "thinks" your game is. People that hang around to grind everything to grade 9/rank 9 might find other favorites or quirks to things they like as much or more, but that's a definite minority of people (and that itself only happens late game because materials for 9th ranks are generally later game). There's nothing I can think of in SotN (or any of the other games, right off) that you get early-mid game and continue to use through late game - and in the games that had it later, all the way to your harder difficulty NG+s. Nothing in SotN's normal castle is very useful in inverted - if something does work out that way, it's probably a glitch or obvious oversight. Iron Shield + Shield Rod is probably about the limit of what was appropriate for SotN as an earlier game offense. You're not getting your hands on anything better unless you cheat the system. My honest response that I actually remember when I read the description for Welcome Company's rank upgrade buff: "more paintings? Why - there's already 5? What would that even look like?" Also, I have to say that Chaser Arrow taking a hit surprises me, but that was in the context of being very disappointed with it because True Arrow completely invalidates it. Why does tracking matter when you can aim a spread anywhere you want that moves faster, and does more damage close and far? I didn't even touch True Arrow in my playthrough though because I remembered how silly it was in the beta. Had I known I'd end up leaning on WC through my entire game, I'd probably have kept myself from using it as well. The temptation to just cheese through all the level design (and bosses) was too strong, and as a result I ended up not seeing whatever work they did on most of the game's conjure shards. If I'd used True Arrow, it'd be the same for the directional shards. That is not great, and what I'm meaning is, that was a large majority of people.
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Post by Aztec on Jul 23, 2019 10:40:15 GMT -6
Whatever balances the game better. And to balance a game you have to nerf and boost some things. I did find myself only using a handful of shards and that wa sbecause i quickly found how the Arrows and Welcome Company were very powerful and you get those very early. This game has a hundred+ shards and if I only ever used 10 then something’s wrong.
They clearly didn’t have the time or resources to make extensive play testing with dozens of testers and thousands of hours because they’re not Activision or EA. There was something’s that they’d only find out after the game was out in the wild being played by (hopefully) millions.
Changes are for the good and you people need to grow up. In Iga I trust.
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Post by gradius on Jul 23, 2019 11:05:24 GMT -6
That some people are bored and lazy to play the game with variety, doesn't mean we should endure good things getting shafted! I am soon to finish hard and i have extensively used everything! From Vepar Tentacle, to flying water leapers (which are surprisingly, pretty good, effective and dangerous)! I don't like some people with issues (guilt ridden, salty), dictating how others should play the game and even, "demanding" nerfs (steam was bloated by such entitled eyesores). This game is to have fun. If some people can't have fun, unless asking for destroying the means that beget fun to other people, then we have a problem.
This is actually pretty irritating, to say the least. And even though people claim no resources/priorities are encumbered for that "deviation", i also don't like neither the timing, nor the nature, or those DEGRADES and not, updates. If some people can't lay down a MEDIOCRE skill, that they even erroneously perceived as "overpowered", they have no right to ruin other people's scedule and builds. This sucks big time.
Even though i used them to a minimum and far late into the story myself, i actually care about everybody else, who incorporates them in their regular playstyle. Not using, or not wanting to use something as is, doesn't mean we should snatch it away from those who do.
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Post by Starsmith on Jul 23, 2019 11:33:15 GMT -6
That’s not strictly true. The Rava weapons are getting nerfed; the second one requires an Imbrued item to make. The Imbrued items are late game.
I can kind of understand doing something about the Dullahans (I used Bloodbringer and Silver Knight on a first playthrough, Dullahan on the second, and the Dullahans single handedly (multi headedly?) made the game much, much easier.
But man, hands off my Crissaegrim. It’s a late game weapon, and not even the best compared to other late game weapons. Eternal Blue with good passive shard support is a beast. Rava is just a hell of a lot more fun, but that’s because it’s a Crissaegrim.ETA: There, think it's unmangled now >_<
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Post by neff on Jul 23, 2019 13:18:27 GMT -6
Ruinous Rood and Shuriken still unaffected. My broke Miriam is still broke.
But ARE YOU KIDDING ME with Bunnymorphosis!? Bunny needs more skills! more power! at least make it safer to land the bunny lightning kick! Everytime we are not transformed into the bunny Johannes should ask "Now where did that bunny go?"
The ruined english countryside is in sore need of bunny justice.
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Post by Ciel on Jul 23, 2019 16:54:56 GMT -6
Sure! Let's start by removing Accelerator, Augment Gold, Recycle Hat, Diamond Bullets, Rhava Bural and Gebel Sunglasses from the game! Because unless you nerf those items to the fucking ground so they become literally useless they are ALWAYS going to be OP! Forget about the point of every IGAvania game when by the end of the game you're basically bulldozing through the castle with no mercy for every moving being! Or what? Are you saying you want to HAVE FUN while doing so and there's no problem with that because it's a SINGLE PLAYER game? Oh my, but we can't have that! Here, your game now is a borefest of "balanced" items for the sake of being "balanced" even though it doesn't matter for a single player game, when there are no fun builds because it's 2019 and in this world pos-Dark Souls, every game is completely forbidden to have any unbalanced powers for reasons. And remember guys: NO FUN ALLOWED! You're making this about something it isn't here with a very exaggerated slippery slope argument (and you're not the only one), where in truth we're probably looking at a handful of shards that are still powerful doing slightly less damage. The slippery slope wasn't really an argument, it was just a sarcastic response for something third said that I can't just comprehend in any possible way. He said that they should nerf every possible OP build out there, and I think that those items I mentioned are OP by definition and, going by his suggestion, ultimately they must be removed then. The extremely powerful late game stuff (which make this game like SotN, which gradius is talking about), aren't being touched. Yeah well, Rhava Velar (previous I confused Velar with Bural here), an endgame weapon, is being nerfed, so... I wanted to like other things, myself, but Welcome Company was (and still is, even 50 hours in) so good that I just ignore everything else. That's the point to focus on - what is VERY good right now should and most likely will remain good, and it just being "good" will allow other things some time for experimentation by the average/most players. Some of the strongest things in the game being also the earliest/most mundane and obvious finds is not particularly good. And just like I said in my previous post, that's not going to happen unless Welcome Company is nerfed to the point of being almost useless, or just plain useless. Your playstyle already revolves around using Welcome Company, so a soft-nerf isn't going to make you stop to use it (just like you said). Nerfing isn't going to change how the shard works, if you feel it to be useful right now it's still going to be useful after the nerf. That is, unless they nerf it to deal 0 damage. It just so happens that Welcome Company is very good for a lot of people, but so what? The only thing this is going to accomplish is make players that use it less powerful for no reason. The majority experience with the game is to use the most obviously powerful things, or what other people tell them are good, beat it once and leave/move on. For the shards this is completely subjective. I did my first playthough on Hard and Welcome Company, Herectical Grinder and others on that list never struck me as very powerful. Well, honestly they were all boring to use. Heck, I spent more time using True Arrow and abusing Jinrai than anything else, mostly because it was more fun to do so. There are no "obviously powerful" shards in this game, they're all extremely powerful and some are even extremely good on some situations. For example, Head Flail is very powerful early game sure, but Gale Crawler do wonders on some annoying ground enemies in the Garden. Oh, and the people who just use what others tell them are good weren't going to experiment anyway, they are a lost cause and you can't make these kind of decisions based solely on their opinion. Also, I have to say that Chaser Arrow taking a hit surprises me, but that was in the context of being very disappointed with it because True Arrow completely invalidates it. Why does tracking matter when you can aim a spread anywhere you want that moves faster, and does more damage close and far? I didn't even touch True Arrow in my playthrough though because I remembered how silly it was in the beta. Had I known I'd end up leaning on WC through my entire game, I'd probably have kept myself from using it as well. The temptation to just cheese through all the level design (and bosses) was too strong, and as a result I ended up not seeing whatever work they did on most of the game's conjure shards. If I'd used True Arrow, it'd be the same for the directional shards. That is not great, and what I'm meaning is, that was a large majority of people. So what do you propose then? Should we nerf True Arrow to the point of being completely superseded by Chaser Arrow? You see, I don't think this is the point of a "get the power of every enemy in this game" system. This is not an equipment system where the following armor is objectively better than the last, and you have no reason to not use the newer one. The point of the shard system is to give the player a lot of unique options that are all powerful enough that the player can use whichever fits his playstyle without the feeling that he's unable to go through a challenge unless he changes his build to a completely different one. Sure this system is bound to have some objectively more powerful (stat-wise) ones, but ultimately who cares if all of them are perfectly useful and viable? Just like I have said too many times now, I never depended on any of those to-be nerfed shards to complete my Hard playthough, which was my first because I used the cheat code. Not even once I felt like I was limiting myself, not even once I felt the game to be too difficult that I had to change my shards to any of those so called OP. My choice to not use them was solely based on the fact that they were too boring for me and didn't fit my playstyle at all.
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anonthemouse
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[TI2]What lies in wait behind the walls?
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Post by anonthemouse on Jul 23, 2019 17:23:33 GMT -6
I'd just like to float the idea that maybe the reason people are so limited in which shards they use and often stick with a few good options they find early on isn't that these shards are inherently more viable. Maybe it's because those shards are obtained early on. People find something that works for them, stick with it, and build their play style for it. For me, I ended up using Summon Ghost for a long time...and I honestly never really replaced it, just got to the point where I was mainly using my Directional shard for damage and didn't touch it any more, so I switched to Summon Chair for the lols. Shard descriptions don't give much information, and there's no easy numbers shown to compare like with weapon attack value. Who wants to spend a ton of time testing every single shard to see if it works when they've already got one that they can use just fine?
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Post by jamesnaruto12 on Jul 23, 2019 17:52:16 GMT -6
Ruinous Rood and Shuriken still unaffected. My broke Miriam is still broke. But ARE YOU KIDDING ME with Bunnymorphosis!? Bunny needs more skills! more power! at least make it safer to land the bunny lightning kick! Everytime we are not transformed into the bunny Johannes should ask "Now where did that bunny go?" The ruined english countryside is in sore need of bunny justice. Love shuriken
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Post by kirtap on Jul 23, 2019 19:15:41 GMT -6
I'm not entirely for the nerfing. In fact, there's some cool weapons that look cool, but are just weak compared to other weapons and could use a little buff. I noticed there's a lot of negative feedback on the Kickstarter regarding the nerfing. Someone had an interesting idea in one of the comments, that they should make the nerfs for another mode. Different idea I was thinking, what if there was a Mode A and a Mode B when you selected a new game, mode b with the nerfing and maybe some bonus for beating? Edit: I mean currently, I guess you can increase the effectiveness of the weapon though if you can find the items/know what you want to equip for the situation your in.
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third
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Post by third on Jul 23, 2019 20:28:26 GMT -6
I think that those items I mentioned are OP by definition
Nonsense. The Recycle Hat and Gebel's Glasses can't be OP, you don't get them until the end of the game. It doesn't matter at that point. Rhava Bural is the only thing from your list that really makes sense, and they're nerfing that. Because it's OP.
OP does not mean powerful. OP is bad, by definition.
This whole conversation just feels intellectually dishonest, just going around in circles. Maybe calling it a conversation is too generous.
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Ciel
Executor of the Church
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Post by Ciel on Jul 23, 2019 20:44:11 GMT -6
I think that those items I mentioned are OP by definition
Nonsense. The Recycle Hat and Gebel's Glasses can't be OP, you don't get them until the end of the game. It doesn't matter at that point. Rhava Bural is the only thing from your list that really makes sense, and they're nerfing that. Because it's OP.
OP does not mean powerful. OP is bad, by definition.
This whole conversation just feels intellectually dishonest. Maybe calling it a conversation is too generous.
Eh, my bad, I was thinking of Rhava Velar while I was writing that. Well I suppose you're against nerfing Rhava Velar then, given what you said?
Anyway, I disagree with you that Rhava Bural is OP. Not sure if it's because my first playthrough was on Hard, but I found it to be rather weak. The damage isn't high enough that you can use it all the time. Sure it's fine under certain circumstances where you need to be able to move fully, otherwise you're better off with a Katana and its techniques or a 2-handed sword.
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