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Post by void2258 on Jul 5, 2019 13:28:39 GMT -6
I am going to start off by saying this is NOT a difficulty complaint. Farming is and should be in the game. The issue is how it is in the game. The current implementation crosses the line from fun to annoying. The problem is randomness and repetition. I will give a specific example.
I needed 6 Fiend Hearts, which only drop from Demon Lords in the Glacial Tomb. Drop rate is listed as 2%. I arrived at the farming spot (the room with a Demon Lord, a cannon, and a G Axe Knight) as a Level 70 with 91 luck. An HOUR AND A HALF and several hundred kills later, the first heart dropped. A half hour later the second and 3rd on consecutive kills, then another hour of nothing, then 1 more, then another hour and the last two. To farm this one item took 4HOURS of nothing but killing this one enemy over and over again. by the time I finished JUST FROM THIS, I was level 78.
This is a ludicrous amount of farming. I am by no means saying it should just drop instantly. But if it has a 2% rate, that should mean I get 1 on average every 50 kills, not every 2-300. And that's with 91 luck, I shudder to think what the rate will look like in Nightmare mode, where max luck is far lower. Also keep in mind that in Nightmare you can't level, which means a) killing each one takes far longer and b) any enemy that drops nothing is worthless, since that XP won't build up and at least get you levels out of this.
There needs to be a maximum auto-drop. Maybe at 50, maybe later, but there should be some maximum where you will definitely get a drop. This kind of what I can only assume is horrible luck with the RNG shouldn't be able to happen. It takes farming and turns it into an extreme chore, and probably just makes farming undoable in nightmare (I have not played nightmare yet). Farming can be fun IN MODERATION, but this almost had me quitting the game. And this is not an isolated case in my experience; I ran into this kind of thing with several other items, either because the drop rate was very very low (orichalcum) or I had to farm extreme numbers due to overuse in the crafting/upgrade list (Bovine Feathers). If you have to farm the SAME EXACT ENEMY AND LOCATION for hours at a time, something is wrong.
Side note: my game is at 35+ hours and at least 15 of that is nothing but these farms. That's too much.
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Post by anonthemouse on Jul 5, 2019 14:11:18 GMT -6
I hate to say it, but that's just how RNG goes. What you're experiencing is the Gambler's Fallacy in action. It may seem logical that at a 2% chance, you'll be guaranteed 2 drops in every 100 tries, but each attempt exists in a vacuum from one-another. With fair RNG, it's perfectly possible that you'll get a bad run of no drops, or not the drops you're looking for.
...which is why some games opt not to use fair RNG. Now, I personally don't think that there should be a guaranteed auto-drop, but a biased drop rate isn't unreasonable. Luck is already supposed to have an effect on rates, but perhaps it should have a greater one. Perhaps Pickpocket should proc. more often. Most certainly, drop rates should have (if they don't already) a difficulty-based modifier to make up for less-frequent kills, and for Nightmare it needs to be significant. Guarenteeing X drops in Y kills, however, I personally think ruins an aspect of the game - with the exception of the Aqua Stream shard, which should have a 100% first-time drop rate, just like the fireball in the tutorial (that or that enemy should be given a different shard, and Aqua Stream should be moved to some of those breakable crystal objects).
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Arcueid Brunestud
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Post by Arcueid Brunestud on Jul 5, 2019 14:15:09 GMT -6
In that kind of situation, I'd work on finding ways to increase my luck. Try abusing Red Remembrance which increases your stats the lower your HP. My favorite way of getting my HP low is taking a lava bath in Inferno Caves. At level 70 you could probably get around 140 luck with Sacred Shade ability. On normal you could easily one shot demon lords with guns with crits. I got 163 luck and recorded my experiences farming fiend hearts. This location is better imo since the chances of loot bags being stuck in walls is almost nonexistent. streamable.com/j8cshAs for nightmare, things get much more of a hassle as Red Remembrance isn't nearly as useful, so you're better off using Augment LCK. I made a compromise between increasing my luck and attack so I ended up with about 100 luck and taking around 4 shots to kill a Demon Lord. If I had to farm Fiend Hearts on Nightmare this is how it would look. streamable.com/dcrruIf you had a ton of money to spare, you could instead wear Gunslinger's Hat to double your damage which should speed up Nightmare farming, and restock on bullets afterwards. |
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Post by void2258 on Jul 5, 2019 14:37:42 GMT -6
In that kind of situation, I'd work on finding ways to increase my luck. Try abusing Red Remembrance which increases your stats the lower your HP. My favorite way of getting my HP low is taking a lava bath in Inferno Caves. At level 70 you could probably get around 140 luck with Sacred Shade ability. On normal you could easily one shot demon lords with guns with crits. I got 163 luck and recorded my experiences farming fiend hearts. This location is better imo since the chances of loot bags being stuck in walls is almost nonexistent. streamable.com/j8cshAs for nightmare, things get much more of a hassle as Red Remembrance isn't nearly as useful, so you're better off using Augment LCK. I made a compromise between increasing my luck and attack so I ended up with about 100 luck and taking around 4 shots to kill a Demon Lord. If I had to farm Fiend Hearts on Nightmare this is how it would look. streamable.com/dcrruIf you had a ton of money to spare, you could instead wear Gunslinger's Hat to double your damage which should speed up Nightmare farming, and restock on bullets afterwards. That farming spot is terrible compared to the one I used. You have to drop down to and jump up from the enemy, and drops fall down and force you to fight an ice elemental. The spot I picked has the demon right by the door, far enough forward that you don't even trigger the other mobs in the room, and the drop, when it happens, lands right on the floor in detective eye range.
Also how did you jump like that? I have highjump maxed and I don't get nearly that high.
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Post by Arcueid Brunestud on Jul 5, 2019 14:41:02 GMT -6
Like I said, the area you're talking about has a high chance of loot bags being stuck in the wall. I use that same area to grind EXP, but not drops. And I dunno about the high jump, it's always that high for me. |
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Post by void2258 on Jul 5, 2019 14:52:30 GMT -6
Like I said, the area you're talking about has a high chance of loot bags being stuck in the wall. I use that same area to grind EXP, but not drops. And I dunno about the high jump, it's always that high for me. That will be fixed next week. BTW, did you notice how low the drop rate of anything that CAN get stuck in the walls was in your video? I didn't watch it completely because I've seen more than enough of that but coin drops were only around 1 in 6, much less items.
I just checked and on my copy high jump does nothing at all. I have 9 and 9 and there is no difference between the shad being on or off. WTF?
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Post by Arcueid Brunestud on Jul 5, 2019 14:55:47 GMT -6
Do you want to take that chance with a 2% drop rate? I know I wouldn't. I encountered several instances of the loot bag bug while testing the room I grind EXP on before switching to the other room to record. When the loot bag bug is fixed, cool. But at this point it isn't.
To activate High Jump you have to press L1 + Up. I think the DS Castlevania games also did this.
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Post by void2258 on Jul 5, 2019 15:12:02 GMT -6
To activate High Jump you have to press L1 + Up. I think the DS Castlevania games also did this. not mentioned ANYWHERE in the game. Way to make something only SotN vets alone know how to use IGA.
wait that can't be right L1 puts you in choose shortcut screen.
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Post by Arcueid Brunestud on Jul 5, 2019 15:18:18 GMT -6
To activate High Jump you have to press L1 + Up. I think the DS Castlevania games also did this. not mentioned ANYWHERE in the game. Way to make something only SotN vets alone know how to use IGA. *cough*  For the record, SotN's High Jump is activated like this game's Invert. |
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Post by void2258 on Jul 5, 2019 15:31:10 GMT -6
DERP
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Post by yulia11 on Jul 7, 2019 13:47:03 GMT -6
In that kind of situation, I'd work on finding ways to increase my luck. Try abusing Red Remembrance which increases your stats the lower your HP. My favorite way of getting my HP low is taking a lava bath in Inferno Caves. At level 70 you could probably get around 140 luck with Sacred Shade ability. On normal you could easily one shot demon lords with guns with crits. I got 163 luck and recorded my experiences farming fiend hearts. This location is better imo since the chances of loot bags being stuck in walls is almost nonexistent. streamable.com/j8cshAs for nightmare, things get much more of a hassle as Red Remembrance isn't nearly as useful, so you're better off using Augment LCK. I made a compromise between increasing my luck and attack so I ended up with about 100 luck and taking around 4 shots to kill a Demon Lord. If I had to farm Fiend Hearts on Nightmare this is how it would look. streamable.com/dcrruIf you had a ton of money to spare, you could instead wear Gunslinger's Hat to double your damage which should speed up Nightmare farming, and restock on bullets afterwards. Would you have liked shards or items that reduce your hp to 1? Maybe a hp to mana converter? Edit: Wrong Thread.
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Post by Arcueid Brunestud on Jul 7, 2019 14:06:17 GMT -6
In that kind of situation, I'd work on finding ways to increase my luck. Try abusing Red Remembrance which increases your stats the lower your HP. My favorite way of getting my HP low is taking a lava bath in Inferno Caves. At level 70 you could probably get around 140 luck with Sacred Shade ability. On normal you could easily one shot demon lords with guns with crits. I got 163 luck and recorded my experiences farming fiend hearts. This location is better imo since the chances of loot bags being stuck in walls is almost nonexistent. streamable.com/j8cshAs for nightmare, things get much more of a hassle as Red Remembrance isn't nearly as useful, so you're better off using Augment LCK. I made a compromise between increasing my luck and attack so I ended up with about 100 luck and taking around 4 shots to kill a Demon Lord. If I had to farm Fiend Hearts on Nightmare this is how it would look. streamable.com/dcrruIf you had a ton of money to spare, you could instead wear Gunslinger's Hat to double your damage which should speed up Nightmare farming, and restock on bullets afterwards. Would you have liked shards or items that reduce your hp to 1? Maybe a hp to mana converter? Also Cheesed Zangetsu and Carpenter with the power of Invert, also Medeled Gebel that way though honestly just running behind him is enough. The Lightning spell hit above with a short ceiling, and can be spammed indefinitely.
I'd like a shard that increases your stats while actively draining your HP. Like OoE's Dominus Agony. |
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Post by yulia11 on Jul 7, 2019 14:11:09 GMT -6
Would you have liked shards or items that reduce your hp to 1? Maybe a hp to mana converter? Also Cheesed Zangetsu and Carpenter with the power of Invert, also Medeled Gebel that way though honestly just running behind him is enough. The Lightning spell hit above with a short ceiling, and can be spammed indefinitely.
I'd like a shard that increases your stats while actively draining your HP. Like OoE's Dominus Agony. Should it be lethal (there is a soul in Dawn which give you a red aura and increase your damage)? Or 1hp (I think it kills her with overusage) |
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Arcueid Brunestud
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Post by Arcueid Brunestud on Jul 7, 2019 14:31:21 GMT -6
I'd like a shard that increases your stats while actively draining your HP. Like OoE's Dominus Agony. Should it be lethal (there is a soul in Dawn which give you a red aura and increase your damage)? Or 1hp (I think it kills her with overusage) It should be lethal if you go below 1HP to balance it out. I guess the higher grade it is, the less HP it drains. |
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Post by Nezuto on Jul 7, 2019 17:56:00 GMT -6
Found a bit of an easier way to get rarer items to drop, when I was farming mats for 100% items. Seemingly, if you max the Augment Gold shard until it's a passive and then equip one, it stacks(was able to get 2k gold bags to drop, as well, using this.) I was farming Flame Mail, at the time and without the shard, only got one or two in an hour. After equipping the shard with the passive active, I can now reliably farm 60+ in an hour.
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Post by Arsenical on Jul 7, 2019 18:34:13 GMT -6
i told myself i was going to stay away from your posts because they are nonsensical to me. but seriously void2258 did you even enjoy this game? literally almost every single one of your threads are complaints about literally everything. "this is irritating" "this is missing this" "this needs to be like this" sorry this isn't the perfect best game ever or the revolutionary metroidvania of the generation but you do understand that this game is suposed to be another castlevania, right? farming has worked like that in literally EVERY SINGLE CASTLEVANIA directed by IGA and Shutaro and that includes the 3D ones. i don't understand what were you expecting. irc you said you haven't played another castlevania made by IGA and yet you come here to post about everything you think its off when in reality most of us were expecting things to work exactly like they work in this game. i dont get it. 
certain shards makes farming extremely easy. (Enhanced Tis Rosain or Void ray) and equipment such as: plunderers ring+ gamblers ring + fully enhanced Augment luck shard(9 / 9) + Book of Fortune+ Ribbon And for those who didnt know this: You Do not need to wait for glitched bags to be looted! simply touch them once and the item will be looted automatically. when you exit the room you will see the items you picked up.just in case you didnt know. TO BE FAIR. yes. you do have a point. farming can get tedious very fast but a forced drop its just NOT reasonable. if the drop rate % increased with consecutive kills then that would be okay. |
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anonthemouse
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Post by anonthemouse on Jul 8, 2019 4:03:18 GMT -6
...seriously [OP] did you even enjoy this game? literally almost every single one of your threads are complaints about literally everything. To be fair, I absolutely adore the game, and most of my posts on these forums since release have been a series of articles in the suggestions board all bearing the subtitle "How they could be better". Sometimes, criticism comes from a place of love. When you truly care about something, you want to see it be the best version it can be. That doesn't mean that you can't enjoy something in the form it exists. However, sometimes it is because someone loves a game and plays it extensively that they're able to clearly see its flaws. An intimate familiarity with the material can make it easier to see things. Plus, that kind of feedback is important. Even if the developers don't change anything in the existing game, feedback can help to give a clearer picture of what works, and what areas need extra attention to get right in a sequel...even when that feedback is largely complaining. |
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