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Post by purifyweirdshard on Apr 8, 2019 8:03:16 GMT -6
Sometimes, when you visit the shop, you will receive hints about how to proceed. Hahaha, another way that Dominique is the new Yoko. This is just like how Yoko gives you tips on what to do next, usually based on hearing from Julius in the castle (in this case, perhaps reports from Zangetsu?) Also thanks as always for the breakdown, PM. Hope you had a great birthday as well. About the difficulty modes - I don't think them being grayed out now necessarily means that they won't be selectable in the final game. For instance, there will also be a lot more on the main menu in the final release and other locked features will be accessible. Too soon to say - I would actually not be surprised if Hard is available at the onset and Nightmare requires a clear.
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Post by Galamoth on Apr 8, 2019 8:56:52 GMT -6
While we're still on the topic of Hard & Nightmare difficulties, I'm wondering when exactly the moment we may need Reflector Ray to actually dodge enemy attacks ( as Question once mentioned in the Update #79 thread) will be? I mean, we already know we'll need Reflector Ray in order to progress past a certain room we've seen in trailers, but will there be an enemy-infested room where we'd actually need it again? Will we find that on Normal/Hard? Or will that one moment be exclusive to the changed enemy placement of Nightmare difficulty?
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Post by rav4ishing on Apr 8, 2019 12:45:13 GMT -6
Here's my take: regardless of all the warranted and non-warranted criticisms this game has received, whomever is able to get their copy on released date will be in awe.
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Post by RichterB on Apr 8, 2019 13:10:48 GMT -6
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purifyweirdshard
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Apr 8, 2019 13:32:29 GMT -6
Quite the discrepancy in engagement (and links I've seen) for the negative articles vs the positive ones lol. sigh, how unfortunate that's how it goes.
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Post by RichterB on Apr 8, 2019 13:37:26 GMT -6
Quite the discrepancy in engagement (and links I've seen) for the negative articles vs the positive ones lol. sigh, how unfortunate that's how it goes. Those above are the ones I ran across today with a quick search. But yeah. Also, doesn't seem like IGN has posted anything yet.
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purifyweirdshard
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Apr 8, 2019 13:59:18 GMT -6
I wasn't referring to your post, rather how they come up in more casual circles/Facebook and newer users in the discord. Typically something like:
*cherry picks a negative article* person: So should I be worried this is another Mn9. Discuss
ENGAGEMENT BEGIN
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Post by Aztec on Apr 8, 2019 14:23:05 GMT -6
This game keeps looking better and better. I never had problems with Miriam’s yelling in general just when she attacks. They did toned it down but in my opinion it wasn’t enough. She still shouts like 75% of the times she attacks
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Post by Pure Miriam on Apr 8, 2019 15:50:41 GMT -6
That video from Gamespot is quite long and since it is mostly focused on a single scenario, i don't know if i should analyze it on my style, it would take a lot of time to do that. But, anyways, i really liked what i've seen, and i wanted to talk a bit about the criticism made on some of these articles and some quick impressions i had.
Miriam feels too slow: I gave up on trying to say otherwise. People feel what they feel and that cannot be changed. Some people say Miriam is slow since the 2016 demo and kept saying that to this day. The animations changed, graphics changed, perception changed, new gear and speed-up shards were added, and people still feel Miriam is slow. There is nothing that can change these people's minds anymore. Maybe she is just too slow for today's standards.
The collision detection: The Destructoid article seems to have been written by someone who just isn't skilled at this type of game. His criticisms sounds more like frustration for being killed by Valac two times and being damaged a lot of times from other enemies, than anything else. There is a saying in my country "Those who can't dance, always put the blame on the floor". That seems to be the case. Watching the Gamespot video, i couldn't see almost any hiccup on collision detection.
The game is too retro: That...what we can say about that? Bloodstained is a game that pays homage to a certain retro style of gaming, promised to deliver exactly that and this is exactly what is giving to the fans. So, that criticism is...weird, to say the last.
Now, i wanted to talk quickly about some impressions i had. If i have the time, i do it in a more deeper way.
1) The scenarios seems huge. The game looks like it will have more large rooms than other Igavanias. Maybe that was made to reach the "IGA's biggest castle" stretch goal easily, but also, since it is 3d, bigger and larger environments give a better sense of space and depth. 2) Dullahammer Head Familiar seems much more useful than it's first interaction, back in 2017. Now he follows enemies around and you can see him attacking to the point of killing enemies a lot of times during the demo. That was satisfying. 3) We can safely say now that Manipulative Shards are focused, mostly, on changing / manipulating stuff, protection and support, apparently. 4) Valac is either a really hard boss or you need to use more tools at your disposal to kill him in a faster and easier way.
If the game is released, as it is, this is more than enough for me. I'm really excited.
That's all folks!
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Post by Aztec on Apr 8, 2019 17:23:30 GMT -6
I’ve been following this project pretty close but when seeing the game being booted up in that video I saw a name I didn’t recognize at all. Right alongside WayForward and DICO we had “Disruptive Games” there. Who are they? I don’t remember them being mentioned before. What’s up with them? I know Inti is out for RotN as well as Armature now that Vita and WiiU are no more but I don’t recognize Disruptive.
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Post by RichterB on Apr 8, 2019 17:25:02 GMT -6
That video from Gamespot is quite long and since it is mostly focused on a single scenario, i don't know if i should analyze it on my style, it would take a lot of time to do that. But, anyways, i really liked what i've seen, and i wanted to talk a bit about the criticism made on some of these articles and some quick impressions i had. Miriam feels too slow: I gave up on trying to say otherwise. People feel what they feel and that cannot be changed. Some people say Miriam is slow since the 2016 demo and kept saying that to this day. The animations changed, graphics changed, perception changed, new gear and speed-up shards were added, and people still feel Miriam is slow. There is nothing that can change these people's minds anymore. Maybe she is just too slow for today's standards. The collision detection: The Destructoid article seems to have been written by someone who just isn't skilled at this type of game. His criticisms sounds more like frustration for being killed by Valac two times and being damaged a lot of times from other enemies, than anything else. There is a saying in my country "Those who can't dance, always put the blame on the floor". That seems to be the case. Watching the Gamespot video, i couldn't see almost any hiccup on collision detection. The game is too retro: That...what we can say about that? Bloodstained is a game that pays homage to a certain retro style of gaming, promised to deliver exactly that and this is exactly what is giving to the fans. So, that criticism is...weird, to say the last. Now, i wanted to talk quickly about some impressions i had. If i have the time, i do it in a more deeper way. 1) The scenarios seems huge. The game looks like it will have more large rooms than other Igavanias. Maybe that was made to reach the "IGA's biggest castle" stretch goal easily, but also, since it is 3d, bigger and larger environments give a better sense of space and depth. 2) Dullahammer Head Familiar seems much more useful than it's first interaction, back in 2017. Now he follows enemies around and you can see him attacking to the point of killing enemies a lot of times during the demo. That was satisfying. 3) We can safely say now that Manipulative Shards are focused, mostly, on changing / manipulating stuff, protection and support, apparently. 4) Valac is either a really hard boss or you need to use more tools at your disposal to kill him in a faster and easier way. If the game is released, as it is, this is more than enough for me. I'm really excited. That's all folks!Good to hear about the "hit detection" issue. I didn't want to watch the whole video because I don't want to know everything...
I will say, though, from what I did watch, that the hit detection of the Dullahammer heads flying around like Medusa heads was strange to me. Are they able to move in and out of the screen in 3D, because it almost seems like sometimes they pass by/through Miriam without doing damage, and other times they do...
Regarding the size of the areas, they seem to have the "verticality" from KCEK's Circle of the Moon on GBA, where areas open up and allow you to do a lot of maneuvering, versus a bunch of hallways and shafts. As a pretty big fan of Circle of the Moon, I am happy to see this.
But I just have to give a huge round of applause for the kind of platforming I'm seeing here--multiple moving platform types, collapsing platforms, spikes--and how it's being done in a pseudo-3D space. It's amazing, building off concepts from Super Ghouls N Ghosts and Castlevania Bloodlines, but putting them into the modern era. I love it! I can see that level design was handled in a way that would give a tip of the cap to both Metroidvania and Classicvania fans. It sounds like the boss battles might be, too--again, more along the lines of Circle of the Moon.
I think Miriam's speed is just fine, too. And if there's a lot of backtracking, I'm sure fast-travel points and other shortcuts will help out and make things all the more satisfying. Sometimes you have to limit the player to make the game open up in a more rewarding way. I'm glad this is sticking to its core principles.
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Post by Lepstadder on Apr 8, 2019 21:05:30 GMT -6
At this point, I like to believe that the subjectivity of game design precedes objectivity. Lots of people (usually non-fans of the genre) whine about or simply misinterpret specific design choices. This game should be play-tested by actual fans, like, people who are skilled in the genre or similar platforming games. I have specific counter-arguments to specific gripes of some of the articles. 1. RotN is a game like Metroid.- Hell no. Just because they vein from the same genre does not mean they are the same kind of game. The writer from Destructoid's article has a lot of really poorly written statements. To make my point shorter, it's always a comparison between RotN and SotN. But, RotN is the love child of Symphony ALL the way to Ecclesia, so a direct comparison to a game from 1997 is quite unfair.
Ignore this dumb little ramble. Just don't compare these games to Metroid, please. 2. Miriam is incredibly slow.- In the writer's defense, she does seem slow. But that's merely an illusion because of the following factors: a.) Miriam is in a 3D space. b.) Her walk cycles are significantly different from Alucard's elegance c.) 2D sprites back then had lesser frames, RotN runs on full 60fps. 3. Characters after Symphony had faster walk cycles.- I disagree. Walk cycle gifs in the spoiler. Nathan literally has TWO FRAMES OF RUNNING ANIMATION and his speed here is significantly faster than anyone else. It's like he's hopping super long.
Well, you get the point. What made their walk cycles seem different is the resolution of sprites and as well as the aftershadow. Again, Miriam is in 3D space. Limit all model animations in the game to 15fps, maybe they'll eventually see the difference. 4. Rooms are too big, especially for Miriam's walk cycle.- In contrast to 2D games, the scale is obviously going to be different. All rooms in past IGAVanias felt small in comparison because RotN is trying to be as close to reality when it comes to the structure of the building. Rooms in RotN have depth, which give it a feeling of "this is a big castle to roam around in", and isn't that a good thing? Remember the chapel from SotN? This room felt really spacious because of the 3D background, especially since PS1 resolution only provided a small screen space. RotN provides a full widescreen so yes, every room does feel like it's bigger regardless if it's a room that is smaller than one of the rooms in past games. 5. Bloodstained is a bit too retro.- This is too stupid for me to even try to come up with an argument. The retro-ness of the game, wasn't that the point? Gamers these days (or probably just game journalists) are so entitled to being able to know literally every meticulous little detail in games. I want my games with a lot of mystery. I don't want to know the bosses' remaining health, because in real life, you don't know how much damage you've done so far. But, knowing how much damage you do is a good game design, because it lets you know what made other weapons different from another. At this point, I just think that the writer of the Destructoid article is pretty bad at games like these, and as well as writing articles. Seriously, this dude can't even write in a neutral tone. But I am glad that the writer is at least going to keep his expectations in check.
That said, I'm not a totally one-sided biased barnacle of a human being. I still think that the graphics could be improved, but it's better than what we had since the last demo. The more obvious changes needed is that Valac doesn't look like it's being hit at all. I'm pretty sure it'd get fixed. And also, hitting the lanterns have almost zero feedback. I wish small sparks or flames exploded after hitting them. The walk cycle is a bit off. The speed is fine, but she looks like she is moving way too fast for how her footsteps hit the ground.
Edit: I'd like to say that we, as humans, think differently. Our minds work in different frames. It's hard to tell if a journalist is being real, different or being a piece of Morte doo-doo. Some articles just seem like not enough thought was put into them, really. How I/we perceive what the game is so far is significantly different from various journalists, casual gamers and hardcore gamers. I'd classify myself as an in-between of casual and hardcore.
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Post by Aztec on Apr 8, 2019 22:26:25 GMT -6
I’ve been following this project pretty close but when seeing the game being booted up in that video I saw a name I didn’t recognize at all. Right alongside WayForward and DICO we had “Disruptive Games” there. Who are they? I don’t remember them being mentioned before. What’s up with them? I know Inti is out for RotN as well as Armature now that Vita and WiiU are no more but I don’t recognize Disruptive. can someone please explain this to me? Who’s Disruptive Games and what’s their involvement? I don’t remember them being announced as a new dev like DICO or WayForward.
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Post by dareka on Apr 8, 2019 23:49:43 GMT -6
I dunno, something about most of these articles doesn't feel quite right... maybe the pacing of the writing's too slow, maybe the paragraphs are too floaty, maybe the points they try to make really don't gel ... I guess they're just too retro for my liking. Newer articles have more colorful fonts, and these just haven't caught up with the times. Also, they're being published after they're no longer relevant ... I mean, I dunno, they could still be OK, I guess. I'm just not feeling their passion.
The latest build for Bloodstained, though, looks fantastic!
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Post by Pure Miriam on Apr 9, 2019 2:07:14 GMT -6
Well, here's my take on the new video, shown at Gamespot: TOWER OF TWIN DRAGONS and LEVEL UP
This scenario name is "Tower of Twin Dragons", that can be seen at the menu. It's obviously inspired on the classic Clock Tower from the old Igavania games, with moving gears and pestering enemies trying to make you fall (Dullahammer Heads, our Medusa Heads Expy). I like it how it looks. Rusty gears, plataforms that open up when you step on them, chains and bricks, with a view of the outside. Dullahammer Head familiar seems to be much more useful now, attacking most of the time, and even killing enemies. This "LEVEL UP" message, though, is a bit weird to me. I am confused if this is Miriam's level up (which i doubt it, because it showed up at other times, not even close to her). For some reason, i think this is the familiar leveling up. I get a feeling that maybe familiars can level up and that's their message. Or maybe something else is leveling up (such as a technique or weapon or smething). It is too way different from how it was to be Miriam's...but, we will see. EMERALD, SAPHIRE AND SILVER
These blue chests seems to contain forging material, although i have a feeling that Emerald, Sapphire and Silver could be more useful to make money by selling, but who knows. Also, this tower looks awesome, it's spinning effect looks great and actually makes it much bigger than it seems to be, with the added chances of you falling down thanks to the pestering Dullahammer Heads and Toads. WOLFMAN and BEAST HEAD SHARD
This enemy, called Wolfman, seens to be though. He can guard several attacks, has quite a lot of health and deals high damage. It seems the best strategy is to fight from a distance, using projectile shards. The player uses a new, Dog or Beast head shard there that is too "melee" to actually be useful against him. NEW MANIPULATIVE SHARD: BEAST GUARDIAN
From Wolfman, comes Beast Guardian, the second confirmed revealed Manipulative Shard. With this one, we can safely say that Manipulative Shards are focused on defense, support and protection somewhat. Also, we can see down there at the bottom of the screen "Demons Slain: 1/3". Probably a quest of some sort. NEW ENEMY: BUER ARMOR
I admit i laughed a bit when i saw this one. We've seen this enemy before but it was really hard to tell what it actually was and it is an armor that throws BUERS! Can't say it isn't creative. NEW ENEMY: POISON TOAD and NEW PASSIVE SHARD: RESIST POISON
Poison Toad, that seems to be nothing but a toad that can poison you (and that alone is frustrating enough!) but also a new shard, Resist Poison, that increases your resistance to poison. I always think these types of shards are a bit useless, but i know, i know, it is really hard to come up with ideas to give powers to almost all enemies in the game, so... NEW ENEMY: CELAENO
And now, we close greek mythology harpies with the new Celaeno enemy, one of the three harpies from said mythology. Seems to be a elaborate pallete swap of Aelo, and when it was about to use some kind of electric attack, the player killed it. I'm kinda curious for it's shard. As a side note, take a look at that huge clock on the background, on top of Miriam. Looks totally awesome. NEW ENEMIES: POLTERGEIST AND SHIELD OUTSIDER
Poltergeist seems to be the backer's portraits, now turned enemies. That may be a bit weird, but they deserve it! Also, they look awesome in their own weird way. Shield Outsider seems to be based on Shield Armors from other Igavanias. That seems to be a pattern, since we also have Axe Outsider on Bloodstained. This specific piece of scenario looks specially great to me, i really liked the windows on the background, the light comming in, it gives a eerie feeling to the whole place. THE CORRIDOR
Another detailed corridor, with several layers in the background. I wonder what Special Ammunition/R even means or what the hell that is! THE ELEVATOR
This is straight from Symphony of the Night. A fast speed elevator coming up and down, with locked doors at it's sides. VALAC
Valac looks really menacing. Everything fits here. The fact that you fight it outside, going down the tower you just tried to go up. Valac seems powerful and a really hard boss (or the player wasn't good enough?) and it seems to have A TON of health. It's Shard, Inferno Breath, is a Directional Shard and it is obviously his fire breath attack. LIST OF NEW ITENS, SHARDS AND ENEMIES SHOWN AT THIS DEMO New itens: Emerald, Sapphire and Silver, Stonethaw, Fey Leak, Plume Pork, Ectoplasm, Hemp, Cotton, Special Ammunition/R. New Shards and Enemies: Wolfman [ Beast Guardian], Buer Armor, Poison Toad [ Resist Poison], Celaeno, Poltergeist, Shield Outsider, Valac (Boss)[ Inferno Breath]. That's all folks!
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Post by Angel-Corlux on Apr 9, 2019 11:51:31 GMT -6
Great comments all around, regarding some negative feedback, as always we value it greatly and share it with the team, but some things I wouldn't worry about.
Like for instance when you hear people saying Miriam is slow. We tried making sure to tell everyone that the default speed is just the beginning (and is exacly 1:1 with SotN), that you earn abilities and equipment that make you faster, all the way from running faster to in some cases turning into a laser beam of light.
But these events can get crazy and I'm sure a lot gets lost in the hustle and bustle.
When the game comes out we're confident the full reviews will put a lot of concerns like that to rest.
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Post by Galamoth on Apr 9, 2019 12:36:56 GMT -6
I don't know what came over me today, but as soon as I saw "Level Up" in that Gamespot video, I initially read it as "LOL".
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Post by Mr. German on Apr 9, 2019 13:04:14 GMT -6
WOW, i love how the game turned out, I can't wait to play it! It looks amazing and I love the gameplay. The team(s) did a wonderful job in every way as far as i can tell. I hope ROTN sells well, it could be the beginning (aside from COTM) of a huge (gaming) franchise. And since the AAA market is apparently trying to implode with their predatory monetizations and casino-like games, I see Indie games and AA titles as the real future of innovative video games and Artplay is on my list of devs I definitely follow and support. Cheers to the hard-working people who work on the game and of course to this friendly and overanalyzing community (without you I would have never read about the COTM special physical release on time)!
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Post by Hertzila on Apr 9, 2019 14:10:48 GMT -6
I wonder if the speed thing really is just about the fact that all Castlevania player characters are on the slower side? The Belmont Strut is pretty well-known and has more or less stuck through the years. The folks there all claimed to play older Castlevanias but maybe part of their rosy glasses is that they remember the games after all the abilites are unlocked and levels are memorized, so the player can speed through the games like crazy. Or if they are more used to the Metroid side of things. Samus has always moved at a bit more brisk pace and Super Metroid has a dedicated sprint button that evolves into the Speed Booster. Plenty of modern MetroidVania's include both faster movement and plenty of movement tech. Since there hasn't been any IGAVanias for quite a while, maybe they have forgotten the strut and have come to expect fast to crazy fast speeds from the very start. Overall I'm not worried though and the "too retro" argument actually makes me kinda hopeful. Retro ideas and inspiration with modern game design advances is more or less exactly what I hope from Bloodstained (and other Kickstarter projects like this) and so far all the complaints I hear are of the sort that I can ignore. 1. RotN is a game like Metroid.- Hell no. Just because they vein from the same genre does not mean they are the same kind of game. The writer from Destructoid's article has a lot of really poorly written statements. To make my point shorter, it's always a comparison between RotN and SotN. But, RotN is the love child of Symphony ALL the way to Ecclesia, so a direct comparison to a game from 1997 is quite unfair.
Ignore this dumb little ramble. Just don't compare these games to Metroid, please. You can't tell me what to do! Aztec Looking at their homepage, they seem to be an online-focused game studio. So my guess is that they're the guys helping with the online game modes.
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Post by Arsenical on Apr 9, 2019 15:47:21 GMT -6
that gamespot video... oh man theres just so much to say about such a small portion of the game. THE MUSIC, THE LEVEL DESIGN, THE VISUAL IMPROVEMENTS, the terrible player should i get used to these terrible gameplays showing lack of skill in every single video of the demo? my personal impressions and totally unbiased review. THE GOOD!!The music is easily the best 100/10. Gears of fortune was the track i was looking forward the most and now that i can finally listen to the full version of that glorious composition i can finally rest... or not quite since i still need full version of holy wisdom and finish the actual game. The tower of the twin Dragons. Simply amazing. i personally don't know how i could improve the level design. It looks very detailed altough im not really sure i like the look of those gargoyle-imp statues. Valac. it looks even better than the version revealed in the Nintendo direct. it looks fierce, challenging and really strong. i am here hoping my boy Valefor receives the special improvement treatment that valac got this time. THE BAD!!Or not really bad but it could use improvements.Miriam's speed. okay, this is something that has never bothered me and i would never complain about such a stupid thing but in this level where the camera is zoomed out and evrything looks big its hard to ignore that Miriam does look really slow. im guessing the player will have access to a speed boost of some kind by the time this area can be entered so im not really worried. Enemy Placement. this one left me really dissapointed. is it because this is a demo with lowered difficulty so that our lovely journalists don't get killed in every room? is it that enemy placement for this area is not yet finished? the mystery. but seriously for such a big area (the outside of the towers) it was really boring to watch the player navigate the place without fighting his way to the top. also, toads and bees? why? i was expecting heavy armored knights and more discus lords (the guys that throw buers at you, they are hilarious) my guess is that the enemies for this demo are customized since the players would not be quite familiar with the platforming or are not given the option to have a personalized gameplay set yet (equipment, shards, other stuff) and placing enemies like those could become a true pain for the demo testers, that could easily take away a lot of time and become frustrating. we don't want that. i am here hoping the enemy placement for the final game will be different. I just spoiled myself an important part of the game. do i regret it? hell no. ok maybe a little. THE SADI really apreciate the game previewers letting us watch the improvements of this amazing game but seriously i am still waiting for an actual metroidvania player, or even better: an igavania player to play the game like it should be played. the sad thing is that looking at things the game is most likely going receive mixed reviews and opinions with the first thing mentioned being Miriam's movement speed or the fact that this is not pixel art. i will be surprised if IGN gives this game anything higher than 7.5 and I expect a lot of bullshark and other stupid reviews. p.s: i have an absolute hate towards videogame journalists and reviewers so please do not mind my evident hate.
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