Feedback Poll: Should Mac/Linux users be offered refunds?

I think this is an important point I'd like to draw more attention to, because it's consistent with how they've handled all things in general. One obvious example is the similarly poor reception currently to the decision of not giving us an exact month for the game's release date. If they do so, in the short term, we are satisfied and they're in actuality just kicking the ball down the road to something they might be 70/30% or so on. Instead, their more responsible stance on it is that they'll only give us the release day/month when they are absolutely certain they can deliver in that timeframe.

How these decisions and ideas are received in the short term are completely up to the listener/backer and their faith, so I understand how some read it merely as "we're not releasing the game even at all in 2019/we're not even at all giving any consideration to Linux/Mac", but my experience with them personally in daily talks and past deliveries/decisions, they have my trust and I believe wholeheartedly every intention to do as they say.

What about the backer demos? Have you/anyone tried those?

Special simple edition for those that hate reading.

Yes
Money will be made off of game, company has money.
Could pay refunds for L/M backers from that.
No excuse.

Verbose home edition.

Yes and I didn’t back Linux or Mac.

It’s not that they cannot give refunds, they are refusing to and the logic doesn’t hold on inspection that the project is out of money for all time. All involved on the business side intend to make money from the project and unless something goes horribly awry they will see profit.

They and defenders are making the argument on the premise that the development money has been expended and there is nothing they can ever do to rectify the matter. Any argument can be made and won on a flawed premise if you accept the premise to be true. Yet in this case it simply isn’t and many are working from this premise as the basis of their argument.

Their are several slight of hands going on here even though they are not exactly lying about the project being out of money. They are saying that they drained the backers money through a variety of ways, yet are fully aware there will be profits.

505 is so sure it will make money they gave them extra money to finish it. Publishers are not exactly in the business of giving money to break even or helping out a fruitless endeavor. They get a percentage and a higher one if they partially fund the project. So there will be money. I could get in to more on that but not trying to write a book here. Too late.

Even past the company paying itself from backer funds for for it’s own Intellectual Property and still having funds in the company, they paid the higher ups salaries. Funds for refunds could either come out of the company or higher ups could pay refunds from monies they have knowing they could get it returned by bonding the company for the debt. This happens more frequently than you’d imagine in business.

If you think they didn’t buy the license from themselves for the Bloodstained property you don’t have knowledge of or haven’t worked in the upper echelons of business or IP management. This goes on all the time at companies like Warner who owns subsidiaries like CW and yet CW still has to license Green Arrow, Flash Supergirl, etc from Warner/DC at a fee and percentages. So the company enriched itself from the project. It may be business as usual but the company could pay for refunds if they so desired. They have or could get access to the money as the project, IP, company, etc has equity. Obviously they have no such compulsion now or later to give refunds and rather tell Linux/Mac backers to kiss off as they won’t need their money again in the future. See above on self enriching.

So they are saying that even when the project makes money Linux/Mac supporters who helped make the project possible are still out in the cold. They have until a certain date to switch up or lose out. They are simply using Kickstarter rules to side step refunds for Linux/Mac users. That is just shady and doesn’t serve them well in the future. Linux and Mac people may be a small percentage of gamers, yet some may be surprised how many are in a social position for recommendations.

If they promised now that refunds would be delivered from profits and they simply do not have funds at this moment, that would be a different matter altogether. I think backers would understand and be more accepting of circumstances.

Even taking a 180 position, admitting they made a mistake and facing the criticism that it is only due to pressure is better than appearing to be dubious in nature. That is a reputation they won’t live down if they continue on this path as evident by other developers and publishers tarnished seemingly eternally. People are more likely to get mad at sullied publishers for missteps as they are watching them more closely.

So far they have not done this about face even though it would be the honorable thing to do and would save them a lot of face. All that could have been avoided if they used morality instead of what they can get away with.

They should stop listening to lawyers and try to endear themselves to their supporters no matter how fickle they may perceive gamers to be in the grand scheme of things. Where does the money for a lawyer come from to advise them? Hmm... Be sure they are being advised by how their response was worded.

I am sure they have also have prepared for a class action lawsuit. Money spent down the line and after the game has released is of less consequence due to inflation and initial sales. They are counting on the length of time it takes to organize and others saying “Well you have your day in court” to further brush off Linux and Mac users and the stink of this situation.

In regards to the determination, how are Linux/Mac backers supposed to give a ton of care to the project that just spit in their face after several years with no indication that their platform was even at risk of being dropped?

I can honestly say at this point that the "well that's not my problem" represents my point of view now. I trusted the project with my money, and then I got backstabbed in return, and they won't even commit to saying that they'd look into a port after release in any serious capacity. How am I supposed to sympathize with their mistake of not polling correctly?

I don’t know if It’s just me but the solution seems obvious. Again this seems to be obscuring the actual situation.

First off, they knew before any of us did that they were canceling Linux/Mac. They could have locked in platforms before that. Then inform backers and offer refunds only to Linux/Mac backers. One could say hindsight, but did they think people were going to jump for joy after putting down their money and having several years of anticipating the game on their platform under their belt then having it yanked out from under them?

However in the situation they are now they could just offer refunds for PC players if they intend to choose Linux/Mac.

If that many people are unhappy with the project or looking to give up their rewards to get a refund, then it sounds like they have a bigger problem than refunds.

Trying to point out the possibility of backer dishonesty seems far fetched. I highly doubt people put their money down for any platform on a gamble with the intention of some how getting it back should something like this would happen. It is not like they are getting anything extra than what they put in from a refund.

I doubt that most Windows users are going to try to “pull a fast one”. Certain parties pulling fast ones being talked about though... Seems to be the reason for unhappiness. Backers put their money down in good faith, not knowing if the project would really happen. The same sentiment should be returned with refunds.

Sure people could get their money back that didn’t have any intention of getting a refund previously but sounds like they should have had more forethought and been more forthcoming to avoid that. Putting it on the backers to just accept it because the company made this decision is just asking for discontentment.

If you don’t open a game you can return it with ease at any retailer. Kickstarter also has refund policies for projects that don’t see completion for a reason. If they are actually finishing the game and going to see profits they should be and feel obligated to refund. Anything less is just a legal swerve to avoid losing money by bending backers to their will after promises made.

Hoooof. Okay guys, let's try to calm down, on both sides. Scars Unseen, you know I like you, you've been a very good member in all the time I've been on staff and I consider you a friend, but let's not generalize Linux/Mac backers and get involved in acrimonious debates like that. At least the Vita and Wii U backers got their money back, but that's not the case for Linux and Mac folks, so they do have a reason to be angry more so than the Vita and Wii U fans. I think it's incumbent on us to show them charity, understanding, and forebearance--because simply as consumers, wouldn't we be angry in their position?


I think that's why Scars Unseen and folks are getting a little frustrated. Again, we understand that Mac and Linux backers have been ill treated and hard done by. But when the options are "a portion of the backers doesn't get to enjoy the project" and "all of the backers don't get to enjoy the project," it's obvious that the former option is the lesser of two evils, and naturally, that's what 505 has chosen. So while--yet again--I understand why you guys were angry (and even though I'm not a Mac/Linux guy, I share it--I don't know why they didn't ask for mac/linux options MUCH earlier, and I hope whoever was responsible for setting up the surveys learned his or her lesson very, very well), but please consider the perspective of everyone else who backed it. Those folks don't want to lose what hope they have for this, and things are tough enough as it is.

When you invest in a company and the company fails do you get your money back? No, that's what this is an investment not a pre-order. Mac/Linux users your funds goes into the same pool of funds as PC. PS4, Xbox, and Switch users to make the game, you certainly weren't "scammed" the game WILL come out (eventually) and that's what this kickstarter promised. It sucks that its not on your platform but that risk you take with investments and something you should consider in the future especially if your using mac/linux which aren't too of common of platforms especially for gaming. Also those who are considering legal action .......really you will spend hours of your time and thousands of dollars on a lawyer and legal fees which probably wont get you any results but you wont drop around $150 to buy a ps4 if you really want your money back change your platform and sell it on ebay when it comes out i assure you someone out there who missed the kickstater wants it