Okay 505, Holiday's over. Time for some answers. (Linux/Mac)

At the risk of adding fuel to the fire - does the latest demo work with wine? I agree that refunds should have been offered but it may well be possible for you to play the game after all.

It's response like this that will cause the 37 to make sure no one ever forgets this happened. Thanks for being the kick in the ass a few of them needed.
Aztec

Only after I quoted them.


If you're not going to enforce your rules until someone saying things you don't like breaks them, they're not rules.


If you and 505 are effectively the same "person," then there is no way to be critical of you and/or your company's unethical behavior without it being considered a personal attack.

It happens, Purify. The other thing to keep in mind, in reference to posts being removed only after they had been quoted, is that it does sometimes take a little time for moderators to check out every post. In my case, I was out driving when the argument was occurring, and I only just got home right now. If I hadn't been out, I would have been able to address the situation which folks here were referring to in a more timely fashion. I wish that were the case, but it looks like it was just a bit of bad luck--I hadn't known trouble would be starting when I left the house to do some errands. So don't be too hard on yourself, Purify.

That said, I'll also back up Purify here as well, in regards to both sides. Non-Linux backers, I'm thankful for your support, and that you guys have our backs (speaking for the mods and 505 here), but at the same time, please try to be patient and have some empathy for the Linux backers. I mean, there's a ton of enthusiasm for the game ever since the trailer was released and we've seen the improvements that have been made. We're all really excited about being able to play the game, but by the same token, it means folks who wouldn't be able to, even after paying for it fairly, are going to feel really left out and disappointed. So let's try to understand their anger, and see if there's anything that can be done to help them--the more people that play the game, the better, after all.

But by the same token, browren and other Linux backers, you guys really need to ease up on the name-calling and constant aspersions on 505's employees. I know, as browren said, that since question and angel work for the company, any insult to 505 will seem like an insult to them, but keep in mind these employees are individuals, and while they work for the company, they're also capable of at least trying to influence the company's decision. I can tell you that me, Purify, and the other mods personally have been talking to Angel and Question about possible solutions for Mac and Linux backers, and Angel and Question have been bringing those solutions and ideas to their higher-ups and seeing about what can be done. If the higher-ups say no, that's that, but it doesn't change the fact that Angel and Question aren't happy about Mac and Linux being canceled, and are trying their hardest to see if the situation can be fixed somehow. Bluntly stated, insulting them is not going to make that task easier--you are shooting yourselves in the foot (for lack of a better word) by getting angry at the community and brand managers rather than (as you put it) the "bean counters" higher up in 505's hierarchy. If you want non-Linux/mac backers to show you more understanding and empathy, as I requested they did, please try to return the favor; it'll make things easier for us *and* make it more likely that we can get something working for Linux/Mac backers.

You have nothing to apologise for, purifyweirdshard, responsibility for things someone says lie solely with the person saying it, and you have been nothing but understanding when it comes to this mess. As I said before, you and the other board admins shouldn't have to deal with any of it. It was wrong of me to respond to flames by lobbing them back.

gunlord500, while I appreciate what you're saying, I don't really want understanding or empathy from other fans and backers, I want 505 to behave like an ethical company and either keep the promises that were made, provide a factual and complete explanation of why they can't keep those promises, or refund the money for those of us who aren't getting what we paid for. The right thing to do was to handle complaints directly, issue refunds where requested, and not involve other fans and backers in their business decision.

That said, I don't have any reason to believe the person controlling the Question account feels any differently from 505's public statements, as he's never tried to contact me directly in public or private or made any statements that I'm aware of to that effect, and while I'd love to believe what you're saying, I have absolutely no evidence of it. If someone would like to direct me to the appropriate manager at 505, I'd be more than happy to talk with that person directly instead, but, 505 sent us all here, and seeing how Question is the representative of 505 here, that's where we are.

Now I have been a professional software developer for 25 years, and have been a Linux developer since before 505 existed. I would NEVER lie to a customer on my company's behalf, no matter who commanded me to do so; I've been around long enough to know that when managers lie and you repeat it, eventually you get blamed for it (and usually by the manager). If the decision bothers Question so much, the very least he could do is get one of the developers to provide a real, technical description of the problem instead of this "middleware" hand-waving, which as I've said over and over, if I got that I'd consider this matter settled. I've also been around long enough to know that when companies stonewall and lob problems into the forums, they usually don't have anything good to say to the people they screwed over.

None of that should prevent them from answering my questions, which they have evaded answering and ignored now since December.

How long should I have to wait before it's considered obvious that Question and 505 won't answer because they're afraid to be honest, and need to hide behind this lie that it's a technical problem? The mods on this board claim 505 is willing to have a measured discussion, but 505 hasn't said anything new, at all. Meanwhile, I've directly demonstrated that both demos run under Linux without problems, I've even offered to fix the technical problem myself for FREE, and gotten no response.

And before I am called "unreasonable" again, I will accept ANY evidence that they did some Linux work before cancelling support. What was the date and time of the last working internal Linux build completion? What UE4 plug-in broke the build? Why were no Linux or Mac demos ever published? How do you justify this "middleware" problem when the Windows demos work as-is on Linux? ANY reasonable answer will do. Hand-waving and vague statements will not. I don't have to like the answer but I'm not going away until we get an accurate, truthful statement on why our platforms were cancelled without refund.

I think it should be obvious to everyone at this point that 505 has had more than enough time to put together a "measured" response. They sure had enough time to put together a trailer on a platform that literally ZERO backers paid for up front. As I said in the other thread, this whole thing now feels like having a friend who owes you money show you his zero bank balance on his new iPhone X. We SEE where you spent our cash, 505, you're not broke due to some misfortune.