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Post by H on Jul 18, 2015 13:28:24 GMT -6
This thread is for discussing on how you think this feature will be integrated into the game, or what you would like to see with this system.
We know it's a separate mode from the main adventure, but will it be accessed from within the game or from a menu? Will playing inside the dungeons have any story-related elements, or will it be purely for fresh gameplay?
Integration.
In Bloodborne, they have it so you find "Chalices" in the main game's world to access their version of procedural generated dungeons. You can later find more challenging dungeons by completing the first dungeons. I wonder if this game will take a similar approach, and have it so you find an items that allows you to travel to other Demon Castles, and possibly within those Demon Castles they'll have key items to open up/summon other Demon Castles? Or, will this game take the simpler-user friendly "Select from Main Menu" approach?
Lore.
Will this feature impact the lore from the main adventure? For Bloodborne, it contained enough lore within to help us understand a little bit more of that universe. I won't speak specifics to avoid spoilers. If this will just be an extra mode, it could maybe not effect the main story at all.
Personal Ideas/Wants.
Lore items as extras, friendly access, priority on gameplay. I want to see some items and loot that we can't normally get from the main (which is a given), but I also want them to have unique descriptions that helps us learn more from this universe. Assuming this IP continues, it could possibly hint at future time settings or explain why Demon Castles are possible in the first place (assuming, again, that we have to explore another castle in another game). I believe it'll be best to hold off the dungeons up until a certain point in the main game where we gain an item to access it, and then it can be accessed from the menu to have easier saving/loading (Instead of having to load up your save file, going to an area, and then loading again to access the castles). Lastly, since this is the first time Igarashi and his team have ever worked on procedural dungeons of this scale (I believe), I understand if some of what I discussed is not possible to put in within their time frame. I want this to be the best possible experience possible, so I hope they do the best they can make this feature as enjoyable as it can be.
Final Thoughts.
Igarashi has mentioned how he liked games that motivates people to try playing the game during different time periods. I think the dungeons can best be used to this purpose. For example, near the Halloween season there can be dungeons and enemies with "pumpkin heads" or classic monster costumes with cheesy horror castle themes and limited-time Halloween themed loot (like a Pumpkin sword). For Xmas they can have an "Ice Castle" with snow/ice demons wearing Santa hats. Maybe the boss of that castle can be a demon wanting to overthrow Santa Claus, so it dresses like him..?
Any way! That's all I have for my thoughts on this feature, with the info that I had. I apologize if there were any details mentioned that I missed that clarified how they'll implement this system.
((I used Bloodborne as a reference because it is the most recent game to have a main world, while also having this feature.))
What are your thoughts on this?
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Post by solomon on Jul 18, 2015 13:57:43 GMT -6
Well, i prefer an area from which we can reach the roguelike dungeon, and maybe a character of the main story who gives us motivations to try this "sub-quest". Anyway, i think that iga and his team should focus their work more on the main castle than on this sub area. Another feature that i like a lot would be the presence of a lot of new enemies (instead of recycled enemies from the main castle), and maybe also new bosses. Finally, it must be an hard dungeon, such as in the best roguelike tradition, to encourage players in replaying over and over again  |
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gunlord500
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Post by gunlord500 on Jul 18, 2015 14:39:33 GMT -6
One thing Bloodborne also had was special bosses for the chalice dungeons (usually slightly modified versions of bosses from the rest of the game, but some were unique IIRC). To make the random dungeons in Bloodstained really interesting, I hope they'd at least modify some of the bosses they're making for a bit of an extra challenge  |
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Post by EbonAnimus on Jul 18, 2015 16:54:33 GMT -6
Sorry guys i don´t know bloodborne, but when i think about roguelike dungeons, i always remember the rifts in diablo 3, the are complete randomly generated dungeons with elite bosses in the end (for those don´t know).
They have better loot and getting harder over the runs you make.
A system like that would generate infinite endgame even with a single castle.
I really like your idea about seasonal dungeons like halloween or christmas, this is really easy to do and only need seasonal bosses which reappear every year^^
And the idea of special roguelike dungeon bosses getting special loot sounds damn good for me too;)
Thumbs up, we need more topics like this to keep the guys here awake;)
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Post by Maker on Jul 18, 2015 17:08:30 GMT -6
Completely desperate from in castle design and for the love of all that's anything... good... bad.. whatever do not include "blood gems" oranything like them from Bloodborne. Please.
Beyond that last request I'm surenitll be fine with whatever else is decided.
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Motoko
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Post by Motoko on Jul 18, 2015 19:00:33 GMT -6
Yeah, Blood gems were not done very well in Bloodborne. But I agree with the rest that has been discussed here, Bloodborne has alot of solid mechanics that would translate well into Bloodstained if implemented properly!
`(*∩_∩*)′
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Post by DragonByDegrees on Jul 19, 2015 2:15:50 GMT -6
This thread is for discussing on how you think this feature will be integrated into the game, or what you would like to see with this system. We know it's a separate mode from the main adventure, but will it be accessed from within the game or from a menu? Will playing inside the dungeons have any story-related elements, or will it be purely for fresh gameplay? Integration. In Bloodborne, they have it so you find "Chalices" in the main game's world to access their version of procedural generated dungeons. You can later find more challenging dungeons by completing the first dungeons. I wonder if this game will take a similar approach, and have it so you find an items that allows you to travel to other Demon Castles, and possibly within those Demon Castles they'll have key items to open up/summon other Demon Castles? Or, will this game take the simpler-user friendly "Select from Main Menu" approach?
Lore. Will this feature impact the lore from the main adventure? For Bloodborne, it contained enough lore within to help us understand a little bit more of that universe. I won't speak specifics to avoid spoilers. If this will just be an extra mode, it could maybe not effect the main story at all. Personal Ideas/Wants.Lore items as extras, friendly access, priority on gameplay. I want to see some items and loot that we can't normally get from the main (which is a given), but I also want them to have unique descriptions that helps us learn more from this universe. Assuming this IP continues, it could possibly hint at future time settings or explain why Demon Castles are possible in the first place (assuming, again, that we have to explore another castle in another game). I believe it'll be best to hold off the dungeons up until a certain point in the main game where we gain an item to access it, and then it can be accessed from the menu to have easier saving/loading (Instead of having to load up your save file, going to an area, and then loading again to access the castles). Lastly, since this is the first time Igarashi and his team have ever worked on procedural dungeons of this scale (I believe), I understand if some of what I discussed is not possible to put in within their time frame. I want this to be the best possible experience possible, so I hope they do the best they can make this feature as enjoyable as it can be. Final Thoughts.Igarashi has mentioned how he liked games that motivates people to try playing the game during different time periods. I think the dungeons can best be used to this purpose. For example, near the Halloween season there can be dungeons and enemies with "pumpkin heads" or classic monster costumes with cheesy horror castle themes and limited-time Halloween themed loot (like a Pumpkin sword). For Xmas they can have an "Ice Castle" with snow/ice demons wearing Santa hats. Maybe the boss of that castle can be a demon wanting to overthrow Santa Claus, so it dresses like him..? Any way! That's all I have for my thoughts on this feature, with the info that I had. I apologize if there were any details mentioned that I missed that clarified how they'll implement this system. ((I used Bloodborne as a reference because it is the most recent game to have a main world, while also having this feature.)) What are your thoughts on this? I'm hoping you can access them from the start, though I can see how this could be problematic if they contain lore, as it could spoil some things. For your XMas boss, why not Krampus?
I'd also like to see Pumpkin from C:LoI as an enemy if we're doing holiday themed encounters  |
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Post by Kitti_W on Jul 19, 2015 2:48:00 GMT -6
Can be a room with PS4 and a big LED TV that Miriam can sit down and play Bloodstained : Rogue Dungeon.
Just kidding.
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Thomas
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Post by Thomas on Jul 19, 2015 9:25:26 GMT -6
"This castle is a creature of chaos. It may take many incarnations."
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Watermelon Overlord
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Post by H on Jul 19, 2015 9:30:27 GMT -6
Yeah I agree that Iga should focus most on the main castle, but this thread is mostly so that if the team happens to need any ideas for this system, they can look here to see all of our ideas and discussions. Igarashi was really excited to be able to implement this mode in the game, so he would definitely want this to be well done. Yeah, something similar to the Blood Gems would be horrible.. that has to do mostly with the crafting system though, so we'll have to see what their ideas are for it. I was thinking we'd get special materials like "pumpkin" loot to decorate our weapons with, or create an entirely new unique opportunities for higher tiered weapons for future dungeons (with hopefully increasingly difficult and unique bosses). Something to reward us for all the work we put into it. I originally didn't think dungeons should be immediately available because some of the items we could get may break early game, but at the same time I think that's the point. With difficult dungeons, we should be appropriately rewarded and the choice shouldn't be taken away if we want to do something like that. Maybe not immediately, but relatively early in the game for personal challenge (and interesting live streams/co-op runs if possible  ). I'd be fine with accessing dungeons from an altar or summoning room or something, but hopefully it isn't too confusing. At first I had to search up a guide on how the chalice dungeons worked in BB. Maybe they can be accessed from both in-game and the main menu? How would you all like to see these castles aesthetically-wise/design btw? It'd be nice to have a castle with multiple regions every time, but I feel it'd be best if each generated castle had a central theme like "ruins","hell-like","cosmic" or maybe after one of the many regions of the main castle with a similarly-themed boss at the end. That's just my opinion though, want to keep hearing all of yours. |
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Post by ghaleon on Jul 19, 2015 10:00:52 GMT -6
People keep saying 'focus more on the main dungeon'... procedurally generated dungeons don't really need a lot of focus other than getting the dungeon generation code down pat, and I'm pretty sure they wont even START working on roguelike mode until the required coding for the main dungeon is done like... being able to move from room to room, not falling thru the floor, attacks doing damage, etc... Most of the stuff would be applicable to both dungeons anyway such as enemy movement attack patterns, item useage, inventory management, etc.
Anyway I think it would be better if it was a seperate mode, not part of the main castle... why? Because if you play this game a bunch and are done with the main game and want to start a new roguelike mode dungeon, you shouldn't have to explore the first 10% of the castle, hit level 6 etc, whatever just to start your roguelike mode game.
Also, I just noticed that it mentioned being able to share random seeds with other people after you beat it. I hope that you don't have to beat it first. I frankly think it would be cool to be able to share the seeds of a dungeon that someone CANT beat, and challenge other players 'I can't beat it, can you'? and hopefully eventually find a seed that many people on the internet can't beat, but want the glory of being the first to do so.
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Motoko
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Post by Motoko on Jul 19, 2015 16:42:22 GMT -6
"This castle is a creature of chaos. It may take many incarnations." Ohhh that gives me goosebumps @_@ |
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Post by Rigel on Jul 27, 2015 16:42:25 GMT -6
I think is a great idea to have special bosses or variations of the bosses in the dungeon mode, also unique items, anyway Im really happy with the changing dungeons.
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Post by H on Jul 27, 2015 17:15:28 GMT -6
I hope we can share the dungeon seeds without beating it as well. I've been playing lots of co-op games lately, and it is definitely much more fun and memorable with a friend. I hope we are able to co-op dungeons with some friends, being able to spit up and sharing what we've found (such as keys or items/weapons that suit each other's playstyle). It may be too much to ask, but maybe giving us updates and new bosses/enemies via the Dungeon Mode system from time to time would be really sweet (if Bloodstained does become a big success of course). So many possibilities with this feature alone could prolong this first game in the IP so much. |
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Post by goldstorm07 on Jul 28, 2015 13:20:00 GMT -6
Honestly, I hope that if the pregenerated dungeon feature is received well enough, we can get a DLC for a designer pack. I am sure there are COUNTLESS Castlevania fans that have drawn and mapped a castle of their own design and have always wanted to explore their creations in a game. It would be one more thing to add to a complete masterpiece.
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Motoko
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Post by Motoko on Jul 28, 2015 13:33:40 GMT -6
Give the rogue dungeon mode exclusive items, exclusive (some) bosses, and weapons. Done ノ(・ω・)ノ
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Watermelon Overlord
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Post by H on Jul 28, 2015 14:54:00 GMT -6
Honestly, I hope that if the pregenerated dungeon feature is received well enough, we can get a DLC for a designer pack. I am sure there are COUNTLESS Castlevania fans that have drawn and mapped a castle of their own design and have always wanted to explore their creations in a game. It would be one more thing to add to a complete masterpiece. That's an awesome idea for DLC. I know I've made my fair share of maps before Only problem I see with it is if we need certain upgrades to get through certain areas we make, but for that we could just put warnings for players on what items you need to fully explore certain player-made castles. Something else to consider is how to appropriately reward players for going through those castles, or maybe it could just be for speed-records. I can already imagine someone trying to recreate a Castlevania Castle, and make Iga the "Dracula" boss in a "Throne room". This makes me wonder if all 3 characters will be able to explore the new dungeons, or if they'll even need certain items to be able to fully explore them or to create shortcuts and such. I am mostly excited for the possibility to bring in new and unseen things that maybe aren't possible in the main castle. Keep up the ideas! Who knows which ones may end up in the end?  |
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XombieMike
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Post by XombieMike on Aug 1, 2015 14:23:15 GMT -6
This thread has been added to the design review area. If any other unique progress is made after this post please make a design review request to include it. Some of the ideas here are simply brilliant!
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beck
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Post by beck on Aug 5, 2015 0:42:25 GMT -6
As the subject says: a level editor. Even a simple one where we select rooms and connect them as best as we can, in some sort of 2D map designer. A more complex one would allow customization or creation of a room using game assets (as many as possible!), save that room, and then be able to use it in your own custom castle. This is not an easy thing I guess, but I think it would bring a lot of life to the game. People would make their own customized castles and share them with the community. I think the payoff would be amazing, but if there is no budget for this, then the roguelike mode should at least have a ton of options? - castle size
- amount of bosses (subsection with allowed/disallowed bosses)
- amount of enemies (subsection with allowed/disallowed enemies)
- allowed rooms to be used in the castle generation
- allowed drops/weapons
- leveling speed/xp boost (0.5x, 1x, 1.5x etc)
And the option for the "generate castle" button to show you at least the layout of the castle before you embark on your mission. The more options the better! |
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Rixuel
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Post by Rixuel on Aug 5, 2015 2:00:58 GMT -6
I prefer the Level Editor Better if it's a mix of Level editor + roguelike |
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). I'd be fine with accessing dungeons from an altar or summoning room or something, but hopefully it isn't too confusing. At first I had to search up a guide on how the chalice dungeons worked in BB. Maybe they can be accessed from both in-game and the main menu?
yey