Solomon_TheFlaxman_Cranach
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Solomon_TheFlaxman_Cranach
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Solomon_TheFlaxman_Cranach
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January 1970
GUEST
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Post by Solomon_TheFlaxman_Cranach on Jul 15, 2015 10:14:03 GMT -6
Hi guys! I'm new here, so forgive me if i have made some mistakes in creating this thread. Also, english is not my language, so i may do some errors. I'm a big fan of igavania games and metroidvania in general. So i was thinking about an important aspect not always considered by people who are developing games like RotN: puzzles. In Symphony, for example, i didn't see puzzles and challenges. But there are also metroidvania in which puzzles are present and in which are well crafted. I'm thinking about La-Mulana, in which they were an important aspect of the game, or also some sections of Axiom Verge or Ori and the blind forest (two recent metroidvanias). Things like "How do you think that you can open that door?", or "That specific item is in an unreachable location, even with all of your cool skills. But there are elements in this room that you can use to find a way". What do you think about sections like these in RotN?
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緋月エリ
Ancient Legion
[TI2] アルカード好き
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Post by 緋月エリ on Jul 15, 2015 10:38:56 GMT -6
Woo! Puzzles! I like that idea! I really enjoyed the puzzle in Dawn of Sorrow that led to Paranoia! That will add some flavour and diversity around the castle for sure! I would love random clues being littered around the castle like random numbers or words that form some sort of combination to a room/section of the castle where you fight a secret boss or get some powerful equipment/upgrade.
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Post by solomon on Jul 15, 2015 10:46:14 GMT -6
Woo! Puzzles! I like that idea! I really enjoyed the puzzle in Dawn of Sorrow that led to Paranoia! That will add some flavour and diversity around the castle for sure! I would love random clues being littered around the castle like random numbers or words that form some sort of combination to a room/section of the castle where you fight a secret boss or get some powerful equipment/upgrade. I'm the one who started the topic, just registred XD. Anyway, i didn't know that in DoS were included puzzles. Good, so this wouldn't be the first time for iga's team
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Hyrist
Builder of Castles
Ancient Legion
[TI2] A lie of light, to preserve the darkness.
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[TI2] A lie of light, to preserve the darkness.
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Post by Hyrist on Jul 15, 2015 10:58:51 GMT -6
So long as the puzzles do not destroy the flow of the game I'm fine with them. If they're too cumbersome, perhaps a simpler puzzle could be used in its place.
Lords of Shadow 2 suffered from puzzles that tended to take away from the game, rather than add richness to them - I'd rather they avoid that pitfall if possible.
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Post by solomon on Jul 15, 2015 11:07:17 GMT -6
So long as the puzzles do not destroy the flow of the game I'm fine with them. If they're too cumbersome, perhaps a simpler puzzle could be used in its place. Lords of Shadow 2 suffered from puzzles that tended to take away from the game, rather than add richness to them - I'd rather they avoid that pitfall if possible. Yeah, for example i was thinking about things like: You found an inscription in a section of the castle in which is written "hit the one who is sleeping", and in another section, maybe a room with a lot of statue, all in different postures, in which there is ALSO a statue of a guy who is sleeping (the fact that all are in different poses is important because if all the statues are sitting and just one is sleeping the puzzle would became too obvious, even without the clue). If you hit it, something happens.
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緋月エリ
Ancient Legion
[TI2] アルカード好き
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Post by 緋月エリ on Jul 15, 2015 11:13:36 GMT -6
So long as the puzzles do not destroy the flow of the game I'm fine with them. If they're too cumbersome, perhaps a simpler puzzle could be used in its place. Lords of Shadow 2 suffered from puzzles that tended to take away from the game, rather than add richness to them - I'd rather they avoid that pitfall if possible. Good point! I have never played any of the LoS games, however, I had played some platformer with very complicated puzzles that made me want to give up. Well, complicated puzzles are good, too, but only for easter eggs or for bonus "omake" content, it should not be an obstacle that you must get through to proceed to the next point of the game. It is one of my pet peeves in action games where I have to slow down in the middle to solve a puzzle to proceed, because in my mind, I just want to go, go, go. I always end up going to Lets Plays and GameFAQs whenever I encounter those overly complicated puzzles to proceed in the game. It is not because I don't like to use my brain, it's because I want to keep the energy flowing while I play the game. Yeah, for example i was thinking about things like: You found an inscription in a section of the castle in which is written "hit the one who is sleeping", and in another section, maybe a room with a lot of statue, all in different postures, in which there is ALSO a statue of a guy who is sleeping (the fact that all are in different poses is important because if all the statues are sitting and just one is sleeping the puzzle would became too obvious, even without the clue). If you hit it, something happens. I think there was something like this Lament of Innocence... that game had a few puzzles there.
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Post by solomon on Jul 15, 2015 11:18:45 GMT -6
So long as the puzzles do not destroy the flow of the game I'm fine with them. If they're too cumbersome, perhaps a simpler puzzle could be used in its place. Lords of Shadow 2 suffered from puzzles that tended to take away from the game, rather than add richness to them - I'd rather they avoid that pitfall if possible. Good point! I have never played any of the LoS games, however, I had played some platformer with very complicated puzzles that made me want to give up. Well, complicated puzzles are good, too, but only for easter eggs or for bonus "omake" content, it should not be an obstacle that you must get through to proceed to the next point of the game. It is one of my pet peeves in action games where I have to slow down in the middle to solve a puzzle to proceed, because in my mind, I just want to go, go, go. I always end up going to Lets Plays and GameFAQs whenever I encounter those overly complicated puzzles to proceed in the game. It is not because I don't like to use my brain, it's because I want to keep the energy flowing while I play the game. Of course. In a game like this, i'm thinking about easy-medium difficulty puzzles, just to add variety to the game. Maybe not only confined to secondary aspects, but also added to the main adventure (but, anyway, not too obscure)
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Post by ghaleon on Jul 15, 2015 11:24:54 GMT -6
I like puzzles but ones in videogames normally annoy me because they are often written in such a way that you can think of like 50 different solutions to the puzzle that aren't the pre-determined one you were SUPPOSED to choose. I can't think of any good examples off hand but one I'll just make up is a puzzle that might say something like 'only the blind can enter'.. so then you the player try entering while having a 'blind' debuff.. and it doesn't work, so then you try entering with all available light sources removed, and it doesn't work, so then you try entering wearing a certain helmet called 'blindfold' or something... and it doesn't work... all kinds of things that SOUND like they should work, and the player isn't any less creative or intelligent for choosing them as a solution to the puzzle, but no, it's some arbitrary solution amongst a ton... maybe there's an enemy you can tame like a squid and you have to make it shoot ink at the door and then it opens.. I HATE THAT @%#@#%@#%@%
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Post by CastleDan on Jul 15, 2015 11:36:53 GMT -6
I'm fine with puzzles as long as it doesn't bog down the pace of the game.
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緋月エリ
Ancient Legion
[TI2] アルカード好き
Posts: 243
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Post by 緋月エリ on Jul 15, 2015 11:42:17 GMT -6
Good point! I have never played any of the LoS games, however, I had played some platformer with very complicated puzzles that made me want to give up. Well, complicated puzzles are good, too, but only for easter eggs or for bonus "omake" content, it should not be an obstacle that you must get through to proceed to the next point of the game. It is one of my pet peeves in action games where I have to slow down in the middle to solve a puzzle to proceed, because in my mind, I just want to go, go, go. I always end up going to Lets Plays and GameFAQs whenever I encounter those overly complicated puzzles to proceed in the game. It is not because I don't like to use my brain, it's because I want to keep the energy flowing while I play the game. Of course. In a game like this, i'm thinking about easy-medium difficulty puzzles, just to add variety to the game. Maybe not only confined to secondary aspects, but also added to the main adventure (but, anyway, not too obscure) I feel that puzzles are meant to enhance the gaming experience, not stifle it. However, I think it will be cool if the game difficulty would effect not only the difficulty of the enemy AI, but will increase difficulty to puzzles, with moderation, of course. I like puzzles but ones in videogames normally annoy me because they are often written in such a way that you can think of like 50 different solutions to the puzzle that aren't the pre-determined one you were SUPPOSED to choose. I can't think of any good examples off hand but one I'll just make up is a puzzle that might say something like 'only the blind can enter'.. so then you the player try entering while having a 'blind' debuff.. and it doesn't work, so then you try entering with all available light sources removed, and it doesn't work, so then you try entering wearing a certain helmet called 'blindfold' or something... and it doesn't work... all kinds of things that SOUND like they should work, and the player isn't any less creative or intelligent for choosing them as a solution to the puzzle, but no, it's some arbitrary solution amongst a ton... maybe there's an enemy you can tame like a squid and you have to make it shoot ink at the door and then it opens.. I HATE THAT @%#@#%@#%@% Oh gosh! I HATE those puzzles!! If Bloodstained was to have any riddles, they should be intuitive and not abstract. Puzzles like that usually send me straight to GameFAQs.
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Astaroth
Fifty Storms
What a wonderful night to have a curse...
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What a wonderful night to have a curse...
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Post by Astaroth on Jul 15, 2015 11:49:24 GMT -6
im interested in this... seriously, love puzzles, games need more of them, from moving block puzzles to disable the trap puzzles, even puzzles where you have to hit some gears sticking out of a wall or dashing down a tunnel as a wolf. i would like it if they placed the much more difficult puzzles out of the way of the main story (that way you can accomplish the game without hitting a wall, but to get that awesome item in the cursed hedge maze you have to work for it ^_^) oops, waters running in the kitchen again, wheres that damn monkey...
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kikumarukike
The Red Comet
Ancient Legion
[TI2]Hey Big Zam!
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Post by kikumarukike on Jul 15, 2015 11:57:29 GMT -6
I myself love puzzles, that doesn't mean I like puzzles in every game I play. They have to be clever, non-repetitive and have some meaning to why they exist.
Certainly puzzles do come in mind when thinking about castles. So maybe they can have some hidden rooms that need puzzle solving.
But the game has to make it clear that you need to solve some kind of puzzle to progress or to open a secret passage, not have you running around like a fool thinking there is something hidden. For example in SotN there is a confession room, I don't know if there is any meaning to it, since I am still in my first playthrough, but I spent hours thinking it was a puzzle of some kind, I still think I was missing something, and every once in a while I went back to see if I can make anything in it.
I am going to be eaten alive I am criticising SotN. Just remember I have not played it before so I have no nostalgia for it.
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Leon
All-Seeing Eye of Truth
Ancient Legion
Bringer of (Un)Life
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Post by Leon on Jul 15, 2015 12:39:41 GMT -6
I love puzzles in general (and solving them) and whatever they are I welcome them! Gotta make that brain of mine work sometimes.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2015 12:52:28 GMT -6
I once tried to put together a 500 piece puzzle. It had a cat in the middle and a ridiculously detailed, grainy wall that covered the rest (about 70% of total puzzle). Took me a while, but I managed to put everything together... With a blender. Wait.. you meant the other kind of puzzles. Yeah, sure, those are fun!
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Post by solomon on Jul 15, 2015 12:55:02 GMT -6
I once tried to put together a 500 piece puzzle. It had a cat in the middle and a ridiculously detailed, grainy wall that covered the rest (about 70% of total puzzle). Took me a while, but I managed to put everything together... With a blender. Wait.. you meant the other kind of puzzles. Yeah, sure, those are fun! Yeah... I didn't think about THOSE puzzles
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Motoko
Shardbinder
[TI0]Care to find out?
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Post by Motoko on Jul 16, 2015 7:40:13 GMT -6
As long as they don't upset the game flow I'm fine with them. I generally like puzzles ^ω^
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zero
Ancient Legion
[TI0]Great president of hell, gifter of knowledge and secrets
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[TI0]Great president of hell, gifter of knowledge and secrets
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Post by zero on Jul 16, 2015 7:51:43 GMT -6
I'm all for it but mostly prefer them to unlock extra areas instead of blockading the main path.
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Maker
Loyal Familiar
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Post by Maker on Jul 16, 2015 8:11:40 GMT -6
I don't care where they are or how they function. Or even what they hide. I want them to range from subtle to insane. The ones I remember from sotn that give you subtle clues like the clocktower gears or that place near the catacombs where the demon familiaropen up an area. Things like tthat come to mind. Also time based ones such as the clock were nice as we'll.
I haven't played enough other titles to be familiar with their puzzles but I will say I do not want puzzles that are overly complicated JUSt for the sake of such things. Climbing the east tower while wearing axe armor holding the sword of dawn and using the key familiar while summoning minions toward the west to unlock a platform or room where the magical bird of babahgunoosh asks you a question in a detected foreign language via smartdevice integration which gives you, upon completion and guessing correctly, a potion (a basic one) and a trophy "Damn you worked hard for nothing". With absolutely zero hinting that you can do something with any of the tools which are related that you pickup Is a textbook example of what NOT to do.
Mostly because the reward and integration... but some people really like those obscure puzzles.
I wouldn't be upset myself but a lot of other devs either gave up the ghost on intricate stuff or just don't have the time / budget.
Kinda long winded post
TL;DR puzzles yes, I like to keep them classy.
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H
Watermelon Overlord
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Post by H on Jul 16, 2015 17:51:12 GMT -6
Game flow is very important in CV games. I'd definitely enjoy a few clever puzzles in there, but the harder ones should probably be out of the way and give you an appropriate award for spending time doing so. (Just like the water levels I suggested in the LoS thread. Optional to explore early, but not necessary to continue the main game). I personally like puzzles that gave you vague hints on what to do in certain rooms such as "Wait 2 cycles at the throne of time" which could be something like wait at top of the clock tower for 2 minutes to unlock a room. I also like ones with no hints but strange interactions with the room. For example, you hit a mirror, and it slowly changes angles, maybe if you hit that curtain next to it and the moonlight reflects off it, it destroys a certain wall? For those I like them to be much more complex. Maybe to initially hit the mirror, they can cleverly place an enemy nearby to make you accidentally hit the mirror while discovering the interaction with it.
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Post by Ashblade on Jul 16, 2015 21:54:40 GMT -6
I do enjoy puzzles, Lufia 2 was one of my favorite RPGs after all and that was puzzle city. I agree with the keeping harder puzzles out of the main story way though. There was one obnoxious one that was required in Lufia 2 that I had a heck of a time with completing as a kid that some puzzles can just be frustrating and is better off to be in a side part of a game.
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