ZeroSbr
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Post by ZeroSbr on May 30, 2018 12:53:40 GMT -6
But the portrait mini-boss in stage 5 (and I hear there are other portrait bosses, so this applies to them too I guess) is poorly designed. Insta-kill moves aren't good design, especially when that's the only attack the enemy uses. That's what you call artificial difficulty. I can't understand how the rest of the game can be so polished yet simultaneously have an enemy this badly designed. I'm not sure how the developers put this mini-boss in and said, "Yeah, that's a good enemy, so good in fact we'll put multiple in!"
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purifyweirdshard
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Post by purifyweirdshard on May 30, 2018 13:01:40 GMT -6
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ZeroSbr
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Post by ZeroSbr on May 30, 2018 13:05:33 GMT -6
To be honest, I was thinking of the NES games when I typed the post. Either way, that's an example of bad design in those games too. There's no good excuse for an insta-kill move. Instead of putting those in, give the enemy more moves to use. It's just lazy to have an enemy that only has one move that kills instantly if it connects. I doubt Inti will patch this, so I'm just not going to bother playing the rest of the game. It was fun while it lasted. I can only hope that RotN doesn't suffer from this kind of nonsense.
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XombieMike
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Post by XombieMike on May 30, 2018 13:48:57 GMT -6
Oh come on. Sure your opinion is your own, and I'm not trying to change your mind. I just firmly disagree.
Hell, you should be honored to die by one of those paintings.
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Post by ovenkitty on May 30, 2018 13:51:03 GMT -6
The portrait's sort of a Vania staple, it's in Rondo as well. At least it's a bit challenging in Cotm, all you had to do in Rondo was stand to the side and whip it.
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Post by ovenkitty on May 30, 2018 13:52:23 GMT -6
Oh come on. Sure your opinion is your own, and I'm not trying to change your mind. I just firmly disagree. Hell, you should be honored to die by one of those paintings. It's annoying as hell when it gets you, but I always smile when it does. I love the character freeze-frames when they die in it.
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purifyweirdshard
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Post by purifyweirdshard on May 30, 2018 13:58:25 GMT -6
Well, I hope you'll reconsider. You could of course fly above it as a bat when it does the (quite obvious) move if you don't feel like you can dodge it.
In this game, it's that one attack that does this to you, otherwise it's normal damage. In Rondo, it's over if it touches you at all, but the likelihood of that happening is much lower since it bounces far away with each hit.
It's no different than a stage hazard that kills you, to me (all of which are also passable by Gebel bat too heh), so it's certainly fine and I wouldn't say any sort of bad design. Without bat form, you have to be careful with jumping. Even there, Miriam gives you more leeway than the others since she jumps a good bit higher.
Come to think of it, I think each character might have a method to where they wouldn't have to worry about dodging that move since they could kill it befoerhand - just dependent on sub weapons.
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ZeroSbr
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Post by ZeroSbr on May 30, 2018 14:18:03 GMT -6
Oh come on. Sure your opinion is your own, and I'm not trying to change your mind. I just firmly disagree. Hell, you should be honored to die by one of those paintings. Sorry, but in what world does this constitute good game design? Look, I like challenging games. I like the Dark Souls trilogy, and I'm playing through the Ninja Gaiden games on hard mode first and working my way up to master ninja difficulty. But even in those games, you don't get oneshot from full hp from anything (falling into a bottomless pit/too far aside), unless of course you forego the hp upgrades on purpose. Those games are legitimately difficult. This portrait enemy is just a result of lazy design. I'm also not sure why I should be honored to die by a portrait. It wasn't particularly hard to get to that point. purifyweirdshard I'm actually doing a Zangetsu-only run. Maybe it's better to do that after I've beaten it "normally", but the fact still remains that oneshots are garbage.
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Post by Busterific on May 30, 2018 14:21:49 GMT -6
Is this on the Zangetsu only run? I'm just getting started on that one. I don't remember coming across any enemies with a one hit kill, unless they knock you off a cliff. I'm wondering if I bypassed it with some of the shortcuts.
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ZeroSbr
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Post by ZeroSbr on May 30, 2018 14:32:37 GMT -6
Is this on the Zangetsu only run? I'm just getting started on that one. I don't remember coming across any enemies with a one hit kill, unless they knock you off a cliff. I'm wondering if I bypassed it with some of the shortcuts. Stage 5. The portrait mini-boss that you run into after the 3 pillar door. Flies back and forth across the room. Maybe it only shows up when you do a Zangetsu only run, because it looks like Gebel is the image in the painting. I'm guessing there's two other mini-boss fights like it; one for each character killed.
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Post by Galamoth on May 30, 2018 14:44:46 GMT -6
Some past Classic-vania's and Igavanias have plenty of Bosses with instant-kill moves, so it's no skin off my nose that the Portraits in Curse of the Moon can do them.
Rusalka (my favorite boss in Order of Ecclesia) has an instant-kill move in the form of summoning a tidal wave. You have to hide under the stone pillars she drops in order to avoid death.
*EDIT: Heck, I used to think Dullahan's Ghost Chaser move in Portrait of Ruin was an instant-kill, but that's because I was usually low-level by the time I faced him (and used Jonathan more often than Charlotte).
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Post by XombieMike on May 30, 2018 14:47:44 GMT -6
When you see the 2nd portrait my comment will make more sense.
Like I said, I'm not trying to change your mind. What I like about it is that it's rewarding to see, and because it can one shot you, it's a real threat as a mini boss. Hell, freeze anything in this game to make any enemy that's not a boss a one hit kill. You have so many characters and lives that death isn't going to be your real deterrent from continuing, it's going to be your lack of determination. It's a cool enemy and I hope it's in Ritual, but with random backer portraits.
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Yän
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Post by Yän on May 30, 2018 14:47:49 GMT -6
ZeroSbr I find your sentiment regarding this insta-kill rather interesting. Are you also upset about the lava that appears later on? How about bottomless pits? I'm not judging you, just curious.
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purifyweirdshard
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Post by purifyweirdshard on May 30, 2018 15:02:35 GMT -6
Solo Zangetsu first? I didn't even realize you could do that. heh
I think that's certainly more of a challenge run and something I'd consider after being pretty familiar with the game/having beaten it once. Having all characters available teaches pretty well what each of them can/can't do and infers a lot of the design decisions. Solo anybody is a definite limitation, so I'm sure things will be more frustrating than they normally should be. It's kind of like playing as Richter first in SotN. If you did that and hadn't played as Alucard, the game would seem unfairly difficult.
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Post by Nezuto on May 30, 2018 15:29:38 GMT -6
Yup, did solo Zangetsu my first run, as well.....Veteran/Normal and did not have any issues with either painting boss. They are predictable, easy to learn patterns and very simple to jump over using the sides of the area. Never once saw it as an 'artificial difficulty' at all and for being pretty much the only 2 things in the game (monsterwise) to 1-shot is definitely nothing to complain over, especially when capable at other 'hard' games.....
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Post by XombieMike on May 30, 2018 16:44:20 GMT -6
Am I the only one that jumps over it at the middle of the screen?
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Post by gunlord500 on May 30, 2018 16:57:48 GMT -6
I don't see how a one-shot portrait is that bad if common enemies can also "one-shot" you by knocking you into a pit, which is a staple of Castlevania games.You can also destroy the portrait extremely easily with Alfred's ice attack, just freeze it and and hit it once. Finally, it only one-shots you when it charges up,I believe, you can attack it freely when it's floating around the room, and when it does its charge attack you just need to time your attack right to drive it back.
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Busterific
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Post by Busterific on May 30, 2018 17:22:53 GMT -6
Am I the only one that jumps over it at the middle of the screen? If it's the mini-boss I'm thinking of then no. I think I haven't actually been hit by it's one shot ability yet. The only time I've been hit by it is by jumping into it during it's initial back and forth movement when trying to get an attack of my own in. Going to see if I'm thinking of the right mini-boss when I get another opportunity to play the game.
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XombieMike
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Post by XombieMike on May 30, 2018 17:38:17 GMT -6
I'm sure it's the same one. I've never been hit by it either, but I've seen others get hit by it. (They didn't complain.)
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Post by purifyweirdshard on May 30, 2018 18:00:59 GMT -6
I got hit by it several times.
Just to see all the art of the characters, of course.
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