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Post by Nuralit on May 26, 2018 8:54:43 GMT -6
Hello there.
I've been reading people's reactions to CotM's release both in this forum and outside of it, and I think we need to take the discussion up a notch, so to speak. Now, before anything else, I'd like to say that I understand mistakes happen. I think most of everyone else does, too. We can't expect perfection, we're only human. However, there are a couple of things which I do find reasonable to expect, and one of them is transparency. And that, I feel, has been sorely lacking.
Pretty much all information we have regarding CotM's release, the issue of backer codes not arriving in a timely manner, and the issue of there simply being no DRM-free option for these codes, has been through people from Fangamer, who are not directly responsible for CotM, and who have, to their merit, done their best to offer us a temporary solution through the temporary Steam codes, and also from people like Question from 505, who assures us that RotN's release will be handled differently. And since different people are involved, I find no reason to believe otherwise.
I could be wrong about this, and if I am, I hope someone will kindly point me in the right direction. I don't mean to point fingers, as I've said above. We're only human, but I've yet to see a statement from someone representing those directly responsible for the issues of backer codes, and the issue of DRM. Now the former issue, at the very least to me, is a minor one, for which a simple explanation would suffice. The latter, however, is a bit more problematic.
You could say, of course, that the promise of a DRM-free version was only ever really made regarding RotN, and that nowhere was it explicitly said that CotM would have that option. It's a technically sound argument, but it's also one that I find to be quite unfriendly, and one might even say anti-consumer. Now, if the issue of a DRM-free option was, perhaps, simply forgotten by those responsible, no harm done, at least from my point of view. I will admit that the issue is not one that the majority of people really care about. If the decision was deliberate, however, that's a problem. DRM was not seen as a necessity for the main game, so to argue in favor of it for a spinoff stretch goal is a difficult task.
I will end this post by saying, once again, that I do not mean to point fingers, that I do not expect perfection, and that I understand mistakes happen. CotM is an excellent game which exceeded my own expectations as a fan of Classicvania. My request is simply for more transparency moving forward.
Thank you for reading.
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Post by Monomona on May 29, 2018 9:33:22 GMT -6
The fault lies on Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo for not giving IGA the keys.
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Post by Meh on May 29, 2018 11:44:26 GMT -6
The fault lies on Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo for not giving IGA the keys. Yeah, I'm sure this was all a CONSPIRACY against IGA.
This is definitely the most logical explanation to all of this.
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Post by ShroudedTraveler on May 29, 2018 11:53:20 GMT -6
I know the post keeps stating they aren't trying to point fingers... but saying, "We need a rep to come out and admit it was all their fault" is essentially trying to point fingers, whether that is the intent or not. Inti Creates did already state that this was first time they had ever done a multi-region/platform release of this size and that's what essentially caused the issue with XBox One and 3DS codes (and likely the other code issues as well). So, we already know that a mistake was made. So, in effect, we know someone messed up. We know about how they messed up. Pumping for someone to walk up and give us a detailed process of the mess-up isn't going to abate any frustration or anger. Such an action would increase it. The best course of action is to accept the apology and to wait. There's nothing else we can do, and getting riled up when people have already admitted they flubbed and learned from their mistakes will, honestly, just make things worse. Link for reference: link
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Post by purifyweirdshard on May 29, 2018 12:06:06 GMT -6
Re: DRM, this was their statement for that:
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Post by Brainiac on May 29, 2018 13:27:48 GMT -6
"...we do not sell our games in ways that can adversely effect the product by limiting sales opportunities due to lack of copy protection."
Translation - you thieves customers would all pirate and you know it so NO.
<rolls eyes>
Understand the thinking, do NOT agree with it at ALL.
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Post by Nuralit on May 29, 2018 13:28:29 GMT -6
I know the post keeps stating they aren't trying to point fingers... but saying, "We need a rep to come out and admit it was all their fault" is essentially trying to point fingers, whether that is the intent or not. Inti Creates did already state that this was first time they had ever done a multi-region/platform release of this size and that's what essentially caused the issue with XBox One and 3DS codes (and likely the other code issues as well). So, we already know that a mistake was made. So, in effect, we know someone messed up. We know about how they messed up. Pumping for someone to walk up and give us a detailed process of the mess-up isn't going to abate any frustration or anger. Such an action would increase it. The best course of action is to accept the apology and to wait. There's nothing else we can do, and getting riled up when people have already admitted they flubbed and learned from their mistakes will, honestly, just make things worse. Link for reference: linkI did see that, but only after the post was made. I'm honestly not sure whether that statement was already out before I wrote this or not, but I did ask people to correct me if there was a statement, so you don't need to be passive-aggressive when pointing it out. If I asked for more transparency, that clearly means I didn't want to accuse anyone of anything, and would rather have the whole situation made clear. So sheathe your weapons, this was a well-meaning post. The whole reason behind this post was that some people were claiming it was Inti's fault, while others claimed otherwise, and nowhere (up until that image) did I actually see an official statement about what happened. Just vague assertions from (understandably) angry people, and Fangamer giving us a temporary solution with no indication of when the codes would actually be showing up. Which is fine, as they didn't really do anything wrong, but that doesn't make the situation any less hazy. I didn't ask for a detailed process, just for something more than what we got which was basically "Yeah, we don't have the codes yet, and we also have no notice of when they'll be coming."
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Post by Nuralit on May 29, 2018 13:32:35 GMT -6
Re: DRM, this was their statement for that: That's truly an appalling statement, and it's completely incorrect on the matter of DRM's effect on game sales. I suppose I should be glad at least that they didn't decide to use Denuvo, but with a statement like that, it doesn't sound too far off on their future projects.
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Post by ShroudedTraveler on May 29, 2018 13:59:51 GMT -6
I know the post keeps stating they aren't trying to point fingers... but saying, "We need a rep to come out and admit it was all their fault" is essentially trying to point fingers, whether that is the intent or not. Inti Creates did already state that this was first time they had ever done a multi-region/platform release of this size and that's what essentially caused the issue with XBox One and 3DS codes (and likely the other code issues as well). So, we already know that a mistake was made. So, in effect, we know someone messed up. We know about how they messed up. Pumping for someone to walk up and give us a detailed process of the mess-up isn't going to abate any frustration or anger. Such an action would increase it. The best course of action is to accept the apology and to wait. There's nothing else we can do, and getting riled up when people have already admitted they flubbed and learned from their mistakes will, honestly, just make things worse. Link for reference: linkI did see that, but only after the post was made. I'm honestly not sure whether that statement was already out before I wrote this or not, but I did ask people to correct me if there was a statement, so you don't need to be passive-aggressive when pointing it out. If I asked for more transparency, that clearly means I didn't want to accuse anyone of anything, and would rather have the whole situation made clear. So sheathe your weapons, this was a well-meaning post. The whole reason behind this post was that some people were claiming it was Inti's fault, while others claimed otherwise, and nowhere (up until that image) did I actually see an official statement about what happened. Just vague assertions from (understandably) angry people, and Fangamer giving us a temporary solution with no indication of when the codes would actually be showing up. Which is fine, as they didn't really do anything wrong, but that doesn't make the situation any less hazy. I didn't ask for a detailed process, just for something more than what we got which was basically "Yeah, we don't have the codes yet, and we also have no notice of when they'll be coming." That wasn't passive aggressive. It was directly pointing out that the post was contradictory with the finger pointing statement (to help you maybe avoid doing that in the future), and then redirecting you to the correct information, which is what you requested. I do apologize if I misunderstood your request for a rep of "those directly responsible" to come forward and speak on it as expecting a detailed process. In light of your statement about keeping tabs, I erroneously assumed you had seen the image, as it was in what I understood as the main thread. Any further explanation would essentially be going into a detailed process of the mistake.
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Post by roguedragon05 on May 29, 2018 15:54:41 GMT -6
So far as the DRM for CotM goes, I honestly don't blame Inti for this I don't agree with them and I don't like there reasoning but it's there company. (I wonder if maybe this is part of the reason why Inti Creates is no longer involved with the main game anymore?) Someone (I don't know who or if they are still involved with the project) had to have made a legal agreement with Inti to make a version of the game for all the different platforms at some point at witch point Inti's lawyers would have said nope we don't make DRM free games at all. So someone "KNEW" and did not make that knowledge public to the backers, I'm not upset that Inti's policy is not to make DRM free games, but I do think it was wrong for the campaign to simply call it a PC version of the retro game for 3 years and not clarify that it was only a Steam version and that it would not be DRM free and then 2 weeks before the game comes out tell the whole story, obviously someone at Fangamer didn't know about this detail, so I'm sure there was still some degree of miscommunication going on.
Regarding the Xbox and European 3DS delays, that in and of itself wouldn't have bothered me so much even if I'd been affected, was it a rookie oversight sure but shit happens. It's an oversight that affects not just the backers, but but the non backers, Microsoft, Nintendo, hell even Inti since you can't get money from something you can't sell.
Now where the codes are concerned... sighs... as I said shit happens sometimes and we don't know exactly what happened, I get that they can't just delay a game at the last min, HOWEVER! I don't believe that this problem just cropped up the very last day. They should have talked with Nin, Sony, MS and been aware how long it would have taken to get the codes, that's just part of doing business if I'm a baker I need to know how long it will take my ingredients to get to me so I know how to store them or when I can use them by. If they really did just drop this one in Sony/etc's lap two or three days before launch without notifying them then that's just stupid. I guess it's possible that Sony/etc. only told them a few days before that there would be a problem but I really have a hard time envisioning that scenario, making codes for games is something they've been doing for a more than a decade.
So unless I'm completely wrong (and I acknowledge that I could be) someone (Inti/505/Fangamer) should have notified the backers sooner than the day of launch. The temp/perm Steam codes WERE appreciated yes, however Inti's really hasn't said much in way of an apology beyond saying it sucks and they can't do anything about it in one live stream, while I get that these companies aren't accountable to the backers at the end of the day, in the end treating backers like they don't have to explain what happened isn't going to lead to a happy fanbase. Inti Creates took on the responsibility to make and distribute Curse of the Moon that responsibility also extents to making sure the backers get there codes, I don't believe that they WANTED things to turn out this way, and I do believe they are trying to fix this, but they could reach out to Fangamer and say hey we want everyone to know what exactly happened or after the weekend they could have come onto the forums/discord and said we know we said it would be a matter of days but it could be longer. Hell even on there own official page for the game the only mention to it is a retweet from Fangamer about the last update and that was before the game was fully available in the rest of the world.
The backers weren't wrong to make the assumption that they should have been able to play the game on the console of choice last weekend or this week at least. I know awhile back "I think it was Angel" reassured backers that there would be plenty of warning before they closed down the slacker backer campaigns and everyone would need to finalize there choices, and I suppose 2 weeks is abit of time but I was expecting at least a couple months notice personally. Everything feels like it was just thrown into the pot and stirred up at the last minute and everyone called to the table and they looked down and saw they didn't put the codes in the pot and just shrugged and said oh well can't do anything about it now. And maybe that's all it is a feeling and maybe they are waiting till everything's fixed before taking time to explain what happened maybe I'm talking out my ass, but until then all were left with is assumptions and the opportunity to watch everyone else enjoy the game however they wish knowing that Inti is making money off of the money we put up 3 years ago while not fulfilling their obligation to us regardless if it's anyone's fault or not.
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Post by Cranium on Jun 2, 2018 14:16:12 GMT -6
I found the newest update's response to the delayed codes kind of inadequate.
Who's we? I thought Inti Creates were responsible for Curse of the Moon. Also, the game is out now so why aren't we allowed to know what these adjustments were?
Then it shouldn't have been announced. Or at the very least, they shouldn't have had Iga saying the codes would be coming soon. Also, they seem to be blaming the announcement and the release date as though they have no control over that. But he said "we" made many adjustments which implies everyone on the project had some form of input.
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Post by gunlord500 on Jun 2, 2018 15:55:30 GMT -6
I think 'we' in a general sense is just IGA taking responsibility as the originator of Bloodstained as a whole, he probably feels obligated out of a sense of duty to take some of the heat off Inti. That said I do agree with you, they should have waited longer before releasing CotM. It might have solved a lot of problems if it had been released at the beginning of June rather than May 24. However, it's possible that would have delayed things further, since I get the impression Inti didn't know they were supposed to coordinate with eshops outside of Japan and only found out like just as they released. As I always say, if 505 had been publishing CotM as well as RotN we couldve avoided this ;_; Ah, well. Hopefully they'll roll out the remaining codes and fix the region issues soon.
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Post by Saint Germain on Jun 3, 2018 22:13:51 GMT -6
I blame the economy.
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