Pure Miriam
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Post by Pure Miriam on Sept 29, 2017 2:23:39 GMT -6
Vepar. Boss from Galleon Minerva.
Bloodless. Boss from the Church of Dian Cecht Boss Rush mode started showing up in Igavania games quite early and from there on, all Igavania games had it, in one way or another. The "formula" of how to properly put a Boss Rush mode has changed over the years too. There are many elements that are, more or less, in all Boss Rush modes from most Igavania games, such as: DATA SELECT: selecting a specific save slot to be used as the character's data for Boss Rush. TIME TRIAL: beating Boss Rush quickly gives rare and unique items, that cannot be obtained anywhere else. These items automatically goes to the data you selected. FINAL BOSS: some boss rush modes had the final boss but some didn't. LOCKED INVENTORY / LEVEL: You cannot level up at the Boss Rush and your character's level is locked at a certain level. Your healing items may also be locked and specific, ignoring the data you selected. COURSES / PATHS: you may select a "course" or "path". Each one has different / harder bosses to beat. ALL CHARACTERS: normally, all playable characters can be used at Boss Rush Mode.
Considering these common elements from past Igavania games and your own ideas, how do you think Boss Rush Mode should be? Level locked, level free (whatever level the data you selected is, it will be the level you will play at Boss Rush) or maybe "selectable level"? Specific healing items or all healing items that you have may be used? Rewards for beating Boss Rush faster or with a great performance? (maybe a perfect run?). Selectable Paths with different bosses, or a single path with all bosses? Or maybe something else? What else? That's all folks!
Also, check my other "how it was, how it should be" threads:
Shards and Magic System: How it was, how it should be Extra playable characters: How it was, how it should be
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Enkeria
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Post by Enkeria on Sept 29, 2017 12:37:59 GMT -6
Never played any type of Boss Rush Mode to a greater extent, only in Aria of Sorrow I believe for a couple of minutes.
Classic: Keeps time on your kills from start to finish, good time result in nice reward in terms of visuals, not things that make the character stronger (except if its exclusive to Boss Rush only to advance further or such.)
Locked Time Attack: So I would see it as you get a room to pick your weapon and skills which gets locked once you enter the bossroom and get to fight one random, after you finished it, a timer which keeps track will stop. This will last either for x amount of boss rooms or until you die. When these are reached, you get a reward. Same as classic, a visual thingy. This might not be Miriam exclusive, since we do not know if other characters have multiple skills they can utilize.
Side note: If you have unlocked all characters, this mode should give you the chance of playing them.
Visual stuff: Costumes, skins for weapons, UI huds, screen filters, skins for bosses.
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Post by Redogan on Sept 29, 2017 12:56:31 GMT -6
I feel like Boss Rush mode should be level-free, all characters, no items, and include the final boss. The level-free part is important to me. I feel like my efforts to level up and become stronger should be reflected in Boss Rush mode. Can't seem to beat Boss Rush? Go level up and try again when you are stronger.
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Post by saberwolf94 on Sept 29, 2017 13:49:40 GMT -6
This might be kind of obvious, but I hope there are some good incentives for doing Boss Rush Mode. As much as I like Lament of Innocence, I have to admint tha it did kind of suck Boss Rush didn't have any reward in that game.
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Post by exalt9 on Sept 29, 2017 20:54:28 GMT -6
I think it should be timed, so we can get it on speed runs websites.
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Post by DSLevantine on Sept 30, 2017 12:24:10 GMT -6
This might be kind of obvious, but I hope there are some good incentives for doing Boss Rush Mode. As much as I like Lament of Innocence, I have to admint tha it did kind of suck Boss Rush didn't have any reward in that game. The challenge itself is the reward
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Post by spideryfingers on Oct 1, 2017 2:36:10 GMT -6
I only do Boss Rush to obtain the special items at the end of it. I very rarely play it thereafter once all the items are gone.
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Post by saberwolf94 on Oct 1, 2017 14:45:40 GMT -6
This might be kind of obvious, but I hope there are some good incentives for doing Boss Rush Mode. As much as I like Lament of Innocence, I have to admit that it did kind of suck Boss Rush didn't have any reward in that game. The challenge itself is the reward You can look at it that way if you want but if we go by this philosophy then there's no need for rewards for anything. The bigger point am trying to get to is while Lament of Innocence is probably my favorite PS2 game and one of my favorite Castlevania games it had room for more content.
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Post by neff on Oct 1, 2017 15:51:03 GMT -6
This might be a stretch, but I think the most satisfying version of boss rush I've seen implemented was Serio's CV Fighter.
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Galamoth
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Post by Galamoth on Oct 1, 2017 16:42:59 GMT -6
Here's what I think should be the case for Bloodstained's Boss Rush Mode (some conditions might also be the case for Boss Revenge Mode):
- Definitely keep Data Select, especially if you want to play the Boss Rush as different characters (rewards may depend on whether the 2nd & 3rd playable characters are fully playable, rather than "bonus" characters.)
- For those who aren't quite as skilled, or are new to "Metroidvania" games, rewards for beating Boss Rush under certain Times (also going to the Save-File you selected) should also be available for beating it below 6 minutes, and even above that time. This definitely should depend on the specific Course selected, as well.
- IF the [true] Final Boss is included in Boss Rush, that enemy should be reserved for the most difficult Course; including all of the other late-game bosses from Gebel's Castle.
- Yes, I do think your character's Level should be locked in Boss Rush, but each Course (depending on the featured Bosses) determines the specific Level you're locked at. The restricted healing items should also be different depending on which Course you selected.
- Perhaps the "easiest" Boss Rush Course would mostly contain significantly-tougher enemies that serve as pseudo "bosses" in the game's story campaign, only to appear later on as normal enemies.
- Depending on how exactly the other two playable characters progress through Gebel's Castle, some of the Bosses they face might actually be different; determining a few of those they face in Boss Rush Courses.
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Post by DSLevantine on Oct 2, 2017 3:19:09 GMT -6
The challenge itself is the reward You can look at it that way if you want but if we go by this philosophy then there's no need for rewards for anything. The bigger point am trying to get to is while Lament of Innocence is probably my favorite PS2 game and one of my favorite Castlevania games it had room for more content. Your analogy is flawed. Boss rush is not the main game, it is an extra mode for players who enjoy it. I always clear it a few times for the reward then forget about it.
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Enkeria
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Post by Enkeria on Oct 2, 2017 5:09:45 GMT -6
What kind of rewards do you get for trying out the mode in Castlevania games?
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Post by Galamoth on Oct 2, 2017 9:53:02 GMT -6
What kind of rewards do you get for trying out the mode in Castlevania games? This specific trend really started with Aria of Sorrow. Harmony of Dissonance most definitely had a Boss Rush Mode, but I don't remember if there were any rewards. Depending on the game, one of the rewards is usually a Potion for the slowest time (more than 6 minutes). Rewards are usually unique weapons, and a few others that I can recall are armor [or accessories] with special effects. Aria of Sorrow's unique rewards are the following: Excalibur (between 5~6 minutes), Positron Rifle (between 4~5 minutes), and Valmanway (less than 4 minutes). Dawn of Sorrow had the joke-weapon called "Terror Bear" (stuffed animal filled with iron sand) for completing Boss Rush in less than 8 minutes. You could also obtain Death's Robe & the RPG, but I don't remember what the other reward was. Portrait of Ruin had mostly item rewards, and only one weapon reward ("Illusion Fist"), if I recall correctly. I definitely remember getting the Scout Armor (total DEF determined by map% explored) and the Astral Ring (consume HP instead of MP when casting Spells). All of Order of Ecclesia's Boss Rush rewards were pieces of headgear, most of which enhanced the power of certain Glyph types. The most notable, however, are the " L. Eye of God" (shows health bar above enemy heads) and the " R. Eye of Devil" (slows down gameplay), both obtained by completing Boss Rush in less than 4 minutes.
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Enkeria
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Post by Enkeria on Oct 2, 2017 10:25:09 GMT -6
What kind of rewards do you get for trying out the mode in Castlevania games? This specific trend really started with Aria of Sorrow. Aria of Sorrow's unique rewards Dawn of Sorrow had the joke-weapon Portrait of Ruin had mostly item rewards All of Order of Ecclesia's Boss Rush rewards were pieces So it seems you are obligated to do good in a mode, that you perhaps dislike, to progress better in the main game? Is this correct?
I am all against those things. Options are great, if we are rewarded with things in Boss Rush, it should either be items you can obtained my playing normally, or estetics to things you already have that doesn't make you stronger or better in any way. A change in color in something are a reward enough. Perhaps costumes and such for all the characters etc.
Thanks for the info Galamoth!
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Post by Galamoth on Oct 2, 2017 10:46:31 GMT -6
Enkeria Boss Rush Mode is not an absolute requirement to "progress better" in the main game (considering that, in most Igavanias, Boss Rush is unlocked by completing the main game once). It just offers extra options as rewards based on how quickly you complete the Courses. No obligation. The items provided by Boss Rush may be mostly unique to that mode, but they're rarely any better (objectively speaking) than what's already in the main game.
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Pure Miriam
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Post by Pure Miriam on Oct 2, 2017 11:04:55 GMT -6
As Galamoth said, it became a trend to give out rewards for fast boss killing in Boss Rush at Igavania games. To be fair, i understand your concern Enkeria but i belive they will do the same for Bloodstained. Those items normally don't give a HUGE advantage, but if you want to have everything, as a completionist, you need to play Boss Rush repeatedly to pick up all items (beating as fast as possible will always give you the item you don't have yet, until you end up just picking potions and that means you already got everything).
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Enkeria
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Post by Enkeria on Oct 2, 2017 11:43:15 GMT -6
I would perhaps want everything. Perhaps someone else feels this way too, and knowing they must finish a trial of boss fights could be tedious.
Hmm. I might have split opinions on this. If we unlock things only for that mode, it would see it be just fine actually. The very thought of my friend have all the things, but not me feels bad. And even if the things are used zero times, people still have OCD, and must get everything.
For me personally, this is no concern, I however tend to think on the "whole aspect / community" rather than me, myself & I.
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Pure Miriam
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Post by Pure Miriam on Oct 3, 2017 2:52:20 GMT -6
Well, Enkeria i don't know if it is tedius. Since you didn't played all Igavanias, you may not have the "usual feel" people have for the Boss Rush. Here's how it works in simple terms (at least, that's how i see it): After you finish the game, Boss Rush is unlocked. You select it, and the game prompts you to choose a file data. That file will be the one you will be using for the Boss Rush. All equipment and Level (until a certain cap at both level and equipment) will be used for you to play at the Boss Rush and anything you pick up at the end will go straight to the same file. After beating all bosses, a item shows up at a last room, after the last boss, and that item is unique, you can only obtain there. Let's take Aria of Sorrow as an example: In Aria of Sorrow, Boss Rush Level cap is 40. So, if you choose a file with Soma at LV 30, you will play Boss Rush at LV 30. But if you choose a file with Soma at LV 78, you will play the Boss Rush at LV 40, since that is the cap. All equipment and souls that the file has, you will be able to use at the Boss Rush, but healing items are switched by a fixed selection for the Boss Rush mode itself (in Aria of Sorrow is Meat Strip x1, Tasty Meat x1, Mind Up x1, High Mind Up x1, Rotten Meat x1 and Spoiled Milk x1). Bosses doesn't give EXP, doesn't drop equipment, souls or anything. The items you pick up by finishing it, depends on the time it took for you to finish it. You will always get the highest tier if you finished as fast as possible. Since Aria has 3 items to pick up, you need to finish the Boss Rush at least three times. That's it. If you are having difficulty in finishing it at a fast pace, you can just go back to the main game and level up the character (if it is not at cap yet), pick up more powers / equipment and such to make things faster. It's not that tedius or hard, in my opinion, if you look at it in practical ways as i just did. People, check my new thread: Extra playable characters: How it was, how it should be
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Enkeria
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Post by Enkeria on Oct 3, 2017 5:40:21 GMT -6
Oh okey. You could steamroll it through due to a cap. Okey then. Thanks for clarity Pure Miriam
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Post by miyalys on May 30, 2018 14:48:36 GMT -6
I think it should be possible to play against any boss individually, so in order to get better at a certain boss you don't have to beat the earlier bosses again and again and again. I think it's just a waste of time when you're forced into redoing a ton of bosses just to get better at a boss far down the line.
Don't know if it's already been suggested, and if I should also suggest it in "Game Feature Discussion"?
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