緋月エリ
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緋月エリ
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Post by 緋月エリ on Aug 18, 2015 11:02:06 GMT -6
For those who are interested... this Podcast talks about the history of Alchemy, maybe that will shed more light to how Bloodstained's story will unfold and maybe even game mechanics, as well! The two hostesses talk briefly about Geber.
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XombieMike
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Post by XombieMike on Aug 18, 2015 14:32:11 GMT -6
For those who are interested... this Podcast talks about the history of Alchemy, maybe that will shed more light to how Bloodstained's story will unfold and maybe even game mechanics, as well! The two hostesses talk briefly about Geber. Thar wad very enjoyable, thanks. I've listed to their show and other How Stuff Works network shows before. I really think IGA was wanting to use that name.
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Lelygax
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Post by Lelygax on Aug 18, 2015 18:34:00 GMT -6
Interesting read. To think that Gebel is based in a historical person, like Dracula himself, very cool.
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Post by lollerskatez on Aug 19, 2015 19:42:24 GMT -6
"Gebel" sounds more like "جبل" (jabal), meaning "mountain." Surprised that Iga spelled it with a "g" instead of "j"; if he wanted a more Arabic-looking name, "j" would have been better. Since it's with a "g", though, it *could* be European in origin. But I'm going with "jabal" or "mountain." Oh wait, apparently it's a German surname, and given "Johannes" and "Miriam," it's probably just another German name. Or it could be a reference to all of these things.
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Canopus
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"The rewards of friendship are far richer than the spoils of war."
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Post by Canopus on Aug 25, 2015 23:26:30 GMT -6
I just had a little fun with numerology, and this name. It amused me how close to home this hit the character we know thus far. Here's the results. (For the actual name's literal meaning, and as a cleverly used pun in Bloodstained lore, skip to the bottom.) What does "Gebel" mean in numerology?
The name Gebel belongs to people who are introspective, prophetic, philosophical, and soul searching; but these individuals can be analytical, critical and opinionated. They tend to think deeply, clearly and have an air of mystery about them. They can be solitary and secretive, and they usually have an eventful, exciting life. These people are versatile and have the ability to learn easily. Dependable, very down-to-earth and well grounded; they are always looking for meaningful work. A career where they can take pride in their work and do the best job they are capable of is paradise. Their prime desire is to build a well protected and secure environment at home and at work. They can be very persuasive in achieving set goals and gaining new objectives. They can also be very detailed, intricate, and generally possess great organizational skills. At times they may appear too stubborn and overly critical to those around them; but their practical approach to life and productivity makes them one of the most beneficial members of any community. Soul Urge Number
The Number 1 suggests a strong sense of independence. Possessing a desire to excel and to lead; it is the most ambitious number, and can bring those who identified with it to the greatest heights. "Dream the impossible dream" is the deepest motivation of these people, and the hidden motive is self-acceptance. Number 1 promotes masculine energy expressed as action and accomplishment. Number 1 represents desire. It can be a desire to love; or a desire to gain knowledge, wealth or wisdom. Number 1 isn't usually known for their patience, because they have so much to accomplish in this lifetime and so little time to do it. Because of this, there's no time to stay and look inside themselves, or to keep waiting for others. They may appear selfish at times, but it comes from a compelling urge for freedom or action, and their preoccupation with establishing their identity. Life path Number
The life path number of Gebel is 22.
Meaning of this life path number:
The master life path number 22 or 22/4 is most powerful and potentially most successful of all Life Path numbers. This number is often referred to as the Master Builder, and they have the unique ability to see the larger picture. They are visionaries with their feet on the ground, and they have the ability to understand and unite many people toward a single goal. The downside of those with a Life Path number 22 is that they can manifest too many challenges, and risk getting overwhelmed by their own potential. Their special path will lead them to turn dreams into reality. They are a born creator of ideas that benefit humanity, and good management principles are generally behind what they do. Common career options could include being a planner, organizer, statesman, diplomat, ambassador, or even president!
Expression Number
Your Expression Number is what you must do in life. Four represents enclosure, completion, and foundation. It is a symbol of earth, the 4th element. Fours are here to build a firm foundation, to labor with concentration, and secure the right to work out their patterns of freedom from any obstacles - such as poverty, heartache and failure. Fours are a very down-to-earth, and well grounded people. Four is associated with home, stability, security, contentment, and a good supply of things needed in life. Protection is Four's birthright. All dreams will be fulfilled if the Four is willing to work for things in his or her life. Security is another keyword for number Four. Building a perfect secure environment, at work or home is the natural desire of all Fours. Four's perseverance is applied towards any job that must be done, or honed in on gaining their objectives. Their organizational skills and productivity make Fours the most excellent leaders. Fours are very detailed and organized, and might appear too stubborn and overly critical to someone with a perceiving personality. The qualities of number 4 can be best described as a "judgmental" personality type in psychology. Personality
The Personality Number is how others see you. The Number 3 is the number of Trinity. Threes inhibit a naturally creative drive that years for expression. Number 3 is a departure from the Number 2 - the source of balance and harmony; and so it is always looking to find a balance by creating something new. There is an urge for self-expression and a desire for variety. Talkative and highly communicative, Threes can relate to many different cultures and concepts due to the flexibility hidden in this number. Music, and the creative arts are excellent outlets of Threes. The biggest challenge of all Threes can be found within a deep rooted uncertainty. Easily bored, these individuals can move from one job to another, easily switching projects and lovers alike. The highly creative force of Threes can lead them either to total bliss or complete despair. One who understands his or her goals when making a major decision in life, then follows it directly... straight up without worry and uncertainty; achieves heights other numbers can only dream about. The number Three (3) is the closest number to the Source, but this light may become akin to dynamite when there are deviations in their path, or when Threes give in to the pursuit of temptation. Hidden passion (innate traits)
The Hidden Passion Number represents your hidden talent. It shapes your personality, and guides your life. The number 5 represents changes, variety, opportunity, travel, escape and a constantly fluctuating life experience. The number 5 is the "Number of Man" and his original five senses. Fives are restless. They are always seeking freedom, and in this pursuit might never be satisfied with whatever they have now. Every time they get closer to something they want, they are still filled with doubt; and sometimes this makes them fearful of what lies ahead, and so a new change must be made. For them, there is always more freedom just around the corner. Fives stand in the center of their existence and try to reach all points at the same time. Always seeking new places, new faces, new changes, and new experiences, they are often welcomed by others because of their honesty (unless they are being totally negative). Fives have their 6th sense of being honest to all, in order to expect honesty and justice from others. It doesn't mean Fives are always reliable or responsible. Their growth is vital, and they don't like to be tied up by rules and obligations. Five's restless spirit might best be controlled by choosing a field of work that meets their demands for action and adventure.
Now I dunno about you all... but this sure sounds like someone who could turn the entire world on its end, if need be. Doubly so if they feel the world is wrong, and not their own stance in life. A strong desire of any kind (even one meant to protect), can be destructive. Once it has been taken to extremes, these sorts of peoplke can give rise to both an internal and external prison; both figuratively and literally. As such, this prison can become a hellish encampment of torment and agony to those who desire to offer sanctuary, and to those being offered sanctum. Gebel's desire was to create a place he and Miriam could belong. But somewhere along the way, his visions became clouded; and his desires were perverted by madness. The result is the Gebel that goes out of control and lashes out at the world around him. In his mad desire to protect what he feels is important, he destroys what he once held dear. This is due to his change in perspective, and his priorities. Literal definition of Gebel, and as a play on words
As for his name's actual origin... Gebel is found used in German history. Gebel also has roots as a Maltese and Arabic word, one originating from the Arabic word Jabal, meaning "hill" or "mountain". It's a rather clever jab at the fact that Gebel is the great mountain that Miriam must overcome in her life. The term "Gebel" can also be tied to Tuna el-Gebel, was the necropolis of Khmun (Hermopolis Magna). It is located in Al Minya Governorate in Middle Egypt. A necropolis is a large ancient cemetery with elaborate tomb monuments. The word is derived from the Ancient Greek νεκρόπολις nekropolis, literally meaning "city of the dead". This is a play on the fact that Gebel raises a castle of his own filled with the undead, demons, and spirits. A literal citadel of the damned, and a land filled with death. A twisted paradise, only a madman could think up. Gebel, and its ties to alchemy
Gebel can also be likened to the Gebel Kamil meteorite which struck Egypt about 5000 years ago leaving a crater surrounded by thousands of pieces of iron shrapnel with a total weight of about 1,600 kilograms (3,500 lb). This link implies that Gebel is destructive and powerful. Further, iron is a a major source material in alchemy; one that is merely two steps away from turning lead into gold (with the one step between that process being copper); therefore making it the source and start of the final phase, Rubedo. So, if we liken the name Gebel to the comet's material (that being iron), we glean a bit more depth. Iron is one of the most abundant elements in the universe; and in alchemy, iron is dominated by the planet Mars. The metal was widely used by the Asian, African and European civilizations. Iron symbolizes the male energy and is connected to physical power, aggression, growth, dependence and protection. It promotes emotions such as lust, confidence, courage, strength, stamina and resilience. It is considered to be the most ‘human’ metal and so, is distrusted by the ethereal entities and spirits.The three alchemical stages preceding rubedo were nigredo (blackness) which represented putrefication and spiritual death, albedo (whiteness) which represented purification, and citrinitas (yellowness); the solar dawn or awakening. In Rubedo, we see the finalization of the Great Work of alchemy. The symbols used in alchemical writing and art to represent this red stage can include blood, a phoenix, a rose, a crowned king, or a figure wearing red clothes. Countless sources mention a reddening process; the seventeenth dictum of the 12th century Turba Philosophorum is one example: "O Turba of Philosophers and disciples, now hast thou spoken about making into white, but it yet remains to treat concerning the reddening! Know, all ye seekers after this Art, that unless ye whiten, ye cannot make red, because the two natures are nothing other than red and white. Whiten, therefore, the red, and redden the white!" When rubedo has been realized, the alchemist has accepted his spiritual inheritance. He has become what he always has been, but never knew he was. He has realized his divine essence while still in his physical body. It is the same as what the gnostici called pneuma, the divine spirit in each man that is concealed in the deep darkness of the world, but can be made conscious again. When rubedo has been manifested, man is master over both the physical as the spiritual world. He has become a King, and a master over himself.When the unification of all energies of the four aspects of totality has been achieved, a new state of being arises that is no longer subject to changes. Chinese alchemy calls it the ‘ diamond body’ which corresponds with the ‘corpus incorruptibile’ (untouchable body) of the European alchemy. It is also the same as the ‘corpus glorificationis’ (glorified body) of the Christian tradition.So what we have here is the following: A great destructive force A citadel of the dead A "mountain" or "trial" that must be overcome. A being who is distrusted by the gods and demons alike, yet still "human". A primarily male energy consisting of physical power, aggression, growth, dependence and protection. A source of emotions such as lust, confidence, courage, strength, stamina and resilience. Rubedo is symbolized by blood (as in bloodstained). Bloodstaind's symbol is a stained glass rose, and a rose represents Rubedo. An awakening of great spiritual power, and a literal divinity in mortal flesh. Rubedo ties to mastery over the physical and metaphysical/spiritual worlds. Gebel, and by proxy, iron and rubedo has ties to kingship. Kings rule from castles, and a castle's king can be called its master. Gebel wears red clothing, and Rubedo is also symbolized by a crowned king, or a figure wearing red clothes. Rubedo is also called the diamond body. The diamond body ties into corpus incorruptibile (untouchable body) of the European alchemy. Diamond is a form of crystal, and untouchable implies greatness, ascendance and power. Ladies and gentlemen, here is your alchemical recipe for the core character, Gebel.
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XombieMike
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Post by XombieMike on Aug 26, 2015 5:43:19 GMT -6
Ermegherd Canopus, now I'm wondering if I've wasted a question for the PAX stream. This research of yours hits so close to the mark. Is IGA really that clever, or is it destiny?
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Lelygax
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Lelygax
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lelygax
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Post by Lelygax on Aug 27, 2015 0:57:40 GMT -6
Not really Mike, we still have hope if he answer my question that was meant to cover things like this. Character names, places and dates, like what he did with 1999 eclipse before.
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Cale
Great Old One
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Cale
The world is indeed comic, but the joke is on mankind.
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cale
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Post by Cale on Aug 27, 2015 17:56:36 GMT -6
I just had a little fun with numerology, and this name. It amused me how close to home this hit the character we know thus far. Here's the results. (For the actual name's literal meaning, and as a cleverly used pun in Bloodstained lore, skip to the bottom.) What does "Gebel" mean in numerology?
The name Gebel belongs to people who are introspective, prophetic, philosophical, and soul searching; but these individuals can be analytical, critical and opinionated. They tend to think deeply, clearly and have an air of mystery about them. They can be solitary and secretive, and they usually have an eventful, exciting life. These people are versatile and have the ability to learn easily. Dependable, very down-to-earth and well grounded; they are always looking for meaningful work. A career where they can take pride in their work and do the best job they are capable of is paradise. Their prime desire is to build a well protected and secure environment at home and at work. They can be very persuasive in achieving set goals and gaining new objectives. They can also be very detailed, intricate, and generally possess great organizational skills. At times they may appear too stubborn and overly critical to those around them; but their practical approach to life and productivity makes them one of the most beneficial members of any community. Soul Urge Number
The Number 1 suggests a strong sense of independence. Possessing a desire to excel and to lead; it is the most ambitious number, and can bring those who identified with it to the greatest heights. "Dream the impossible dream" is the deepest motivation of these people, and the hidden motive is self-acceptance. Number 1 promotes masculine energy expressed as action and accomplishment. Number 1 represents desire. It can be a desire to love; or a desire to gain knowledge, wealth or wisdom. Number 1 isn't usually known for their patience, because they have so much to accomplish in this lifetime and so little time to do it. Because of this, there's no time to stay and look inside themselves, or to keep waiting for others. They may appear selfish at times, but it comes from a compelling urge for freedom or action, and their preoccupation with establishing their identity. Life path Number
The life path number of Gebel is 22.
Meaning of this life path number:
The master life path number 22 or 22/4 is most powerful and potentially most successful of all Life Path numbers. This number is often referred to as the Master Builder, and they have the unique ability to see the larger picture. They are visionaries with their feet on the ground, and they have the ability to understand and unite many people toward a single goal. The downside of those with a Life Path number 22 is that they can manifest too many challenges, and risk getting overwhelmed by their own potential. Their special path will lead them to turn dreams into reality. They are a born creator of ideas that benefit humanity, and good management principles are generally behind what they do. Common career options could include being a planner, organizer, statesman, diplomat, ambassador, or even president!
Expression Number
Your Expression Number is what you must do in life. Four represents enclosure, completion, and foundation. It is a symbol of earth, the 4th element. Fours are here to build a firm foundation, to labor with concentration, and secure the right to work out their patterns of freedom from any obstacles - such as poverty, heartache and failure. Fours are a very down-to-earth, and well grounded people. Four is associated with home, stability, security, contentment, and a good supply of things needed in life. Protection is Four's birthright. All dreams will be fulfilled if the Four is willing to work for things in his or her life. Security is another keyword for number Four. Building a perfect secure environment, at work or home is the natural desire of all Fours. Four's perseverance is applied towards any job that must be done, or honed in on gaining their objectives. Their organizational skills and productivity make Fours the most excellent leaders. Fours are very detailed and organized, and might appear too stubborn and overly critical to someone with a perceiving personality. The qualities of number 4 can be best described as a "judgmental" personality type in psychology. Personality
The Personality Number is how others see you. The Number 3 is the number of Trinity. Threes inhibit a naturally creative drive that years for expression. Number 3 is a departure from the Number 2 - the source of balance and harmony; and so it is always looking to find a balance by creating something new. There is an urge for self-expression and a desire for variety. Talkative and highly communicative, Threes can relate to many different cultures and concepts due to the flexibility hidden in this number. Music, and the creative arts are excellent outlets of Threes. The biggest challenge of all Threes can be found within a deep rooted uncertainty. Easily bored, these individuals can move from one job to another, easily switching projects and lovers alike. The highly creative force of Threes can lead them either to total bliss or complete despair. One who understands his or her goals when making a major decision in life, then follows it directly... straight up without worry and uncertainty; achieves heights other numbers can only dream about. The number Three (3) is the closest number to the Source, but this light may become akin to dynamite when there are deviations in their path, or when Threes give in to the pursuit of temptation. Hidden passion (innate traits)
The Hidden Passion Number represents your hidden talent. It shapes your personality, and guides your life. The number 5 represents changes, variety, opportunity, travel, escape and a constantly fluctuating life experience. The number 5 is the "Number of Man" and his original five senses. Fives are restless. They are always seeking freedom, and in this pursuit might never be satisfied with whatever they have now. Every time they get closer to something they want, they are still filled with doubt; and sometimes this makes them fearful of what lies ahead, and so a new change must be made. For them, there is always more freedom just around the corner. Fives stand in the center of their existence and try to reach all points at the same time. Always seeking new places, new faces, new changes, and new experiences, they are often welcomed by others because of their honesty (unless they are being totally negative). Fives have their 6th sense of being honest to all, in order to expect honesty and justice from others. It doesn't mean Fives are always reliable or responsible. Their growth is vital, and they don't like to be tied up by rules and obligations. Five's restless spirit might best be controlled by choosing a field of work that meets their demands for action and adventure.
Now I dunno about you all... but this sure sounds like someone who could turn the entire world on its end, if need be. Doubly so if they feel the world is wrong, and not their own stance in life. A strong desire of any kind (even one meant to protect), can be destructive. Once it has been taken to extremes, these sorts of peoplke can give rise to both an internal and external prison; both figuratively and literally. As such, this prison can become a hellish encampment of torment and agony to those who desire to offer sanctuary, and to those being offered sanctum. Gebel's desire was to create a place he and Miriam could belong. But somewhere along the way, his visions became clouded; and his desires were perverted by madness. The result is the Gebel that goes out of control and lashes out at the world around him. In his mad desire to protect what he feels is important, he destroys what he once held dear. This is due to his change in perspective, and his priorities. Literal definition of Gebel, and as a play on words
As for his name's actual origin... Gebel is found used in German history. Gebel also has roots as a Maltese and Arabic word, one originating from the Arabic word Jabal, meaning "hill" or "mountain". It's a rather clever jab at the fact that Gebel is the great mountain that Miriam must overcome in her life. The term "Gebel" can also be tied to Tuna el-Gebel, was the necropolis of Khmun (Hermopolis Magna). It is located in Al Minya Governorate in Middle Egypt. A necropolis is a large ancient cemetery with elaborate tomb monuments. The word is derived from the Ancient Greek νεκρόπολις nekropolis, literally meaning "city of the dead". This is a play on the fact that Gebel raises a castle of his own filled with the undead, demons, and spirits. A literal citadel of the damned, and a land filled with death. A twisted paradise, only a madman could think up. Gebel, and its ties to alchemy
Gebel can also be likened to the Gebel Kamil meteorite which struck Egypt about 5000 years ago leaving a crater surrounded by thousands of pieces of iron shrapnel with a total weight of about 1,600 kilograms (3,500 lb). This link implies that Gebel is destructive and powerful. Further, iron is a a major source material in alchemy; one that is merely two steps away from turning lead into gold (with the one step between that process being copper); therefore making it the source and start of the final phase, Rubedo. So, if we liken the name Gebel to the comet's material (that being iron), we glean a bit more depth. Iron is one of the most abundant elements in the universe; and in alchemy, iron is dominated by the planet Mars. The metal was widely used by the Asian, African and European civilizations. Iron symbolizes the male energy and is connected to physical power, aggression, growth, dependence and protection. It promotes emotions such as lust, confidence, courage, strength, stamina and resilience. It is considered to be the most ‘human’ metal and so, is distrusted by the ethereal entities and spirits.The three alchemical stages preceding rubedo were nigredo (blackness) which represented putrefication and spiritual death, albedo (whiteness) which represented purification, and citrinitas (yellowness); the solar dawn or awakening. In Rubedo, we see the finalization of the Great Work of alchemy. The symbols used in alchemical writing and art to represent this red stage can include blood, a phoenix, a rose, a crowned king, or a figure wearing red clothes. Countless sources mention a reddening process; the seventeenth dictum of the 12th century Turba Philosophorum is one example: "O Turba of Philosophers and disciples, now hast thou spoken about making into white, but it yet remains to treat concerning the reddening! Know, all ye seekers after this Art, that unless ye whiten, ye cannot make red, because the two natures are nothing other than red and white. Whiten, therefore, the red, and redden the white!" When rubedo has been realized, the alchemist has accepted his spiritual inheritance. He has become what he always has been, but never knew he was. He has realized his divine essence while still in his physical body. It is the same as what the gnostici called pneuma, the divine spirit in each man that is concealed in the deep darkness of the world, but can be made conscious again. When rubedo has been manifested, man is master over both the physical as the spiritual world. He has become a King, and a master over himself.When the unification of all energies of the four aspects of totality has been achieved, a new state of being arises that is no longer subject to changes. Chinese alchemy calls it the ‘ diamond body’ which corresponds with the ‘corpus incorruptibile’ (untouchable body) of the European alchemy. It is also the same as the ‘corpus glorificationis’ (glorified body) of the Christian tradition.So what we have here is the following: A great destructive force A citadel of the dead A "mountain" or "trial" that must be overcome. A being who is distrusted by the gods and demons alike, yet still "human". A primarily male energy consisting of physical power, aggression, growth, dependence and protection. A source of emotions such as lust, confidence, courage, strength, stamina and resilience. Rubedo is symbolized by blood (as in bloodstained). Bloodstaind's symbol is a stained glass rose, and a rose represents Rubedo. An awakening of great spiritual power, and a literal divinity in mortal flesh. Rubedo ties to mastery over the physical and metaphysical/spiritual worlds. Gebel, and by proxy, iron and rubedo has ties to kingship. Kings rule from castles, and a castle's king can be called its master. Gebel wears red clothing, and Rubedo is also symbolized by a crowned king, or a figure wearing red clothes. Rubedo is also called the diamond body. The diamond body ties into corpus incorruptibile (untouchable body) of the European alchemy. Diamond is a form of crystal, and untouchable implies greatness, ascendance and power. Ladies and gentlemen, here is your alchemical recipe for the core character, Gebel. Well, you seem to have it all figured out for Gebel, so I guess I won't have to include it in my prediction statement. I am telling you guys, the story is right in front of us, and how it will unfold. I am gonna write my predictions on a piece of paper, seal it in a vault, come back 2 years from now, and reveal the paper! I see that you also have "An awakening of great spiritual power, and a literal divinity in mortal flesh." as one of your points. Have you read link? One paragraph that stands out to me is "But there’s another way to read the alchemical project, and that is that the transformation had more to do with the alchemists themselves than with a lump of metal. Turning lead into gold was a symbolic way of describing the true aim of alchemy: the spiritual transformation of the alchemist. If one takes the time to read the alchemical literature, it’s easy to come away feeling absolutely muddled. Strange creatures, impossible landscapes, paradoxes, and downright illogic seem to dominate; the closest thing to any modern is the writings and art of the surrealists, who, ironically, looked to the alchemists for inspiration or interpretation of dreams." And a few more quotes that lead me to believe the true goal of Gebel: - "The true goal of the alchemists, the real aim of all the preparation and cumbersome apparatus, was to unite their earthly, mortal soul with that of the Creator, to participate in the divine, to reawaken their spiritual consciousness, and to grasp the secret forces at work behind the natural world. In this the alchemists carried on the same work as their Neoplatonic forebears." - "As the alchemists transformed the matter in their alembic through the alchemical process, their own inner world experienced similar changes. The entire process centered on the idea of rebirth. The alchemists were to “die” in a sense—to lose their earthly, mortal being—and, if the procedure was successful, would be reborn." But since we have Gebel figured out, I want to know, what do you think of Miriam, and Johannes? Is Miriam the accidental hero? Is Johannes the villain pulling Gebel's strings?
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Canopus
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Canopus
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kaitoudark
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Post by Canopus on Aug 27, 2015 20:35:30 GMT -6
Again, as before... this is my own personal opinion on the names and sources.
On Miriam
The Origin of Miriam?
You know already that alchemy is called the "great work".
Put bluntly, Miriam is likely to be rebelling against this, in her own way. By rejecting its creed, and all that stand with it as madness; she takes a totally different stance outside of the alchemical beliefs she was raised around. After all... The name Miriam is a Hebrew baby name. In Hebrew the meaning of the name Miriam is: "Rebellious". Alternatively, it may mean "wished-for child" (something that the alchemist guild no doubt wanted her to be), "bitter" (towards how she was treated, and never given choices), or "strong waters" (as in turbulence, troubled, deep and reflective). Further, bearing in mind that many Levite names are Egyptian, it might be derived from an Egyptian word myr, which means "beloved" or "my love". This might reflect Gebel's view of her. (As he wanted to build the two of them a place to call home, above all else.) "Miriam"; and its ties to metals, astronomy, and alchemy
Once again tying into the stars and cosmological; the name "Miriam" is represented in astronomy as a term that refers to a large mass. The "102 Miriam" to be exact. This is a moderately large, very dark main belt asteroid. The 102 Miriam is measured by a scale called Albedo. You might recall that Albedo is also a term used in alchemy. In alchemy, Albedo is one of the four major stages of the magnum opus; along with Nigredo, Citrinitas and Rubedo. It is a Latinicized term meaning "whiteness". Following the chaos or massa confusa of the Nigredo stage, the alchemist undertakes a purification in Albedo, which is literally referred to as "Ablutio" – the washing away of impurities. In this process, the subject is divided into two opposing principles to be later coagulated to form a unity of opposites or "coincidentia oppositorum" during Rubedo. Two writings bear importance to this process in alchemy. They may bear the same importance to to the character, Miriam. This is key to us in game, because purification is fully present. In fact, we have a form of Miriam called "Pure Miriam"; which by extension, may roughly come across as "Albedo Miriam" in alchemy. This could possibly tie into the fact that Miriam is the only one left "pure", in some way. Water in the spiritual aspect of alchemy
As mentioned in the previous section, Miriam also means "Strong Waters". Water is also important in alchemy in yet another, more direct manner.
Water stands, like fire, for depth; but also for variables, or - expressed in a positive way - "open" emotions. This is the acceptance of diversity and the will for the new. Water also represents the contemplative moment, the searching in your inner self, for the discovering of the deepest and darkest things of yourself but also for unleashed chaos, for uncertainty without a goal. Water, in opposition to the stability of earth, stands for inspiration, for creation, for giving birth to ideas, longings and hopes, for moving and for changing. Because if water stands still... it will rot, just like things made of derivatives from the element of earth. The Element of Water stands for cleanness and pureness; for innocence and virginity. Water is the force which changes people, minds, time, and everything; as Water itself is constantly changing, but always the same. Water is a constant pulse of life. Wherever fire transforms, water is the element which demands to be transformed in balance. Water is creation and destruction of prior things, and water also stands for care and wisdom; but also hold ties to tranquility, and in healing to restore what was once lost. Water (and Miriam's) colors in alchemy
Blue, purple and white are the colors that represent Water in alchemy.
These a direct contrast to the shades of red that are used to represent Rubedo (and Rubedo we know, ties to Gebel).
This reflects the polar ideals and thought processes of Miriam and Gebel.
Water as a metal? The correlation between water and tin
Here's where it gets confusing.
Water also has a metal that represents it in alchemy. That metal is "tin". Tin is representative of Jupiter. It embodies wisdom, logic, education, maturity and knowledge and is believed to be the metal of the sages and scholars. It is associated with mediation, balance and a philosophical view of life. This metal is also connected to prosperity and wealth. The popularity of tin is dated to the Bronze Age with civilizations around the world making extensive use of it. Breakdown
"Miriam" is synonymous with the ingredients of water and tin in alchemy, tied in through Albedo, and metallurgy. Water is a catalyst. Its commonly used to represent change, wisdom and deep reflection. Albedo represents whitening and purification. Albedo is the opposite of Rubedo. Blue, purple and white, the colors used to represent water in alchemy, are inverted opposites of Rubedo. These are therefore, opposites of Gebel; who uses the fiery color, Red. Johannes; Runes, and AlchemyI'll be honest... This last part will be incredibly wordy, as Johannes is easily the most complex of the three. Now, regarding the character, Johannes... I'd base his origin in Johannes Thomae Bureus Agrivillensis. Johannes was a Swedish antiquarian, polymath and mystic. He was royal librarian, tutor, and adviser of King Gustavus Adolphus of Sweden. During his studies, Bureus learned Latin and Hebrew. In 1591 Bureus got a medieval magic book in his hands (from his father in law Mårten Bång who was beheaded 1601) and got interested in Kabbalah. Also Bureus was interested in astronomy, which may have caused another interest of his: Rosicrucianism. Rosicrucianism is a philosophical secret society (much like alchemists were), said to have been founded in late medieval Germany by Christian Rosenkreuz. It holds a doctrine or theology "built on esoteric truths of the ancient past", which, "concealed from the average man, provide insight into nature, the physical universe and the spiritual realm." Rosicrucianism is symbolized by the Rosy Cross or Rose Cross.
Bureus' Danish colleague Ole Worm (Olaus/Oleus Wormius, 1588-1654), together with people like Guillaume Postel (Frenchman, 1510-1581) and Tycho Brahe (also a Dane, 1546-1601) saw the 'new star' (a supernova) in 1572 like a German group of students who would become inspired to write the famous Rosicrucian manifestoes.
Bureus (and his rivals/colleagues Ole Worm and Tycho Brahe) were captured by these Paracelsian writings aiming for world reform based on alchemy and spiritual revolution. In 1593 Bureus became civil servant since he was appointed as editor of religious texts in Stockholm. Just before he moved there, Bureus ran into a runestone that awakened his curiosity. He lived in an area that has many runestones, but he never really noticed them before he saw the stone in front of the Cistercian cloister of Riddarholm. He was captivated by the strange scripts and wanted to learn how to read them. Therefore, he traveled to the province of Dalarne and learned to read the runes from the local farmers. In 1599 and 1600 Bureus made an extensive trip through his native country to find more runestones so he could write down, translate and interpret the texts. King Karl IX even assigned him to translate certain stones. His work regarding these runes and his fascination with the Sybil Alruna, were written of by Guillaume Postel; a famous French linguist, astronomer, Cabbalist, diplomat, professor, and religious universalist. "Alruna" is also the Swedish word for "Alraune", "Alruin" or "Mandragora", the most famous of magical plants and often depicted in alchemical drawings as a crossbreed of a man and a plant. Breakdown
Johannes studies many things, including alchemy and Estoric runes. Johannes belonged to a secret society that used alchemy as a founding principle for world reform & revolution. This order was represented by a Rose Cross, the center of which was pure white. Roses are a key icon to Bloodstained. Expressed fascination with the Sybil Alruna as a source of prophecy. "Alruna" is also the Swedish word for "Alraune", "Alruin" or "Mandragora", the most famous of magical plants and often depicted in alchemical drawings.
WHEEEW.... Finally done. Total time for essay: 2 hours.
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Cale
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Post by Cale on Aug 27, 2015 22:24:49 GMT -6
Well put! And I must say, it all seems to fit together. Gebel and Miriam are opposites for a reason, but they also share some similarities, which makes me feel that there will be a Darth Vader - Luke Skywalker moment. The only thing I am still not sure of is Johannes. . . The story we are being told is that he disagreed with the Alchemists, and was against their plan to summon the demons. But you know what Walter Benjamin says — 'History is written by the victors.' The only one who could corroborate his story is Gebel (as far as I can tell, since Miriam was in a crystal coma), and Gebel seems to be losing his grip on reality. My concern is Johannes' true intentions. If he is using Miriam and Gebel for some unknown purpose. But that's just my tin-foil hat conspiracy at work. On a side note, I love the possibility that Johannes might be connected to Alraune in some way! (My favourite monster from SotN!) Thanks Canopus for such an in-depth analysis!
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Post by Lelygax on Aug 28, 2015 3:58:07 GMT -6
This can interest someone too...
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緋月エリ
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Post by 緋月エリ on Aug 28, 2015 9:05:54 GMT -6
For those who are interested... this Podcast talks about the history of Alchemy, maybe that will shed more light to how Bloodstained's story will unfold and maybe even game mechanics, as well! The two hostesses talk briefly about Geber. Thar wad very enjoyable, thanks. I've listed to their show and other How Stuff Works network shows before. I really think IGA was wanting to use that name. I also found a Podcast that might potentially explain Johannes' character origin.
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XombieMike
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Post by XombieMike on Aug 28, 2015 12:42:28 GMT -6
Thar wad very enjoyable, thanks. I've listed to their show and other How Stuff Works network shows before. I really think IGA was wanting to use that name. I also found a Podcast that might potentially explain Johannes' character origin. Once again you have found a good nugget of podcast gold for us. Thank you so much. I think that Dippel would fit better as Frankenstein than our Johannes though. Check This Out.
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Post by aindriu on Sept 1, 2015 16:59:55 GMT -6
Kudos for taking the time to research this! How fascinating!
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Post by demiurgos on May 5, 2016 16:08:43 GMT -6
Fun fact!
"Gebel" sound a little bit like the swedish word "jävel", which translates to "devil" in english.
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Post by dimlitcandle on Aug 18, 2016 17:50:23 GMT -6
Maria the Jewess (or Maria Prophetissima, Maria Prophetissa, Mary Prophetissa, Miriam the Prophetess) is a figure appearing first in the works of the Gnostic Christian writer Zosimos of Panopolis.
Zosimus’ sources are not clear, and may be developed from Miriam, sister of Moses, but on the basis of his comments she is estimated to have lived anywhere between the first and third centuries AD. She is attributed with the invention of several kinds of chemical apparatus and is considered to be the first nonfictitious alchemist in the Western world.
The primary source for the existence of a Maria the Jewess in the context of alchemy is Zosimos of Panopolis, who wrote in the 4th century the oldest alchemy books known. Zosimos describes several of her experiments and instruments. In his writings, Mary is almost always mentioned as having lived in the past and being one of the “sages.”
George Syncellus, a Byzantine chronicler of the eighth century, presents Mary as a teacher of Democritus, whom she met in Memphis, Egypt at the time of Pericles. The tenth century Kitāb al-Fihrist of Ibn al-Nadim cites her as one of the fifty-two most famous alchemists, knowing the preparation of the caput mortuum (nigredo, or black phase). The Roman philosopher Morieno called her “Mary the Prophetess” and the Arabs knew her as the “Daughter of Plato”, a name that in Western alchemical texts was reserved for the white sulfur.
In the Alexander book (2nd part) of the Azerbaijani Persian poet Nizami, Maria, a Syrian princess, visits the court of Alexander the Great, and learns from Aristotle (384 BC – 322 BC), among other things, the art of making gold.
Though none of her writings have survived, quotes credited to her are found in hermetic writings. The most notable of those quotes is found in an extract made by an anonymous Christian philosopher, named The Dialogue of Mary and Aros on the Magistery of Hermes, in which are described and named operations that would later be the basis of Alchemy, leukosis (whitening) and xanthosis (yellowing). One was made by grinding and the other by calcination. This work describes for the first time an acid salt and other acids that can be identified with acetic acid. There are also several recipes for making gold, even from root vegetables such as the Mandragora.
Several cryptic alchemical precepts have been attributed to Maria Prophetissa. She is said to have spoken of the union of opposites:
Join the male and the female, and you will find what is sought.
The following was known as the Axiom of Maria:
One becomes two, two becomes three, and out of the third comes the one as the fourth.
Psychologist Carl Jung used this as a metaphor for the process of wholeness and individuation.
Related Apparatus
Mary is said to have discovered hydrochloric acid, though this is not accepted by most science texts.
Maria, alongside Agathodaimon, pseudo-Democritus and Hermes Trismegistus, has also been mentioned by Zosimos of Panopolis in his descriptions pertaining devices such as the tribikos, the kerotakis and the bath, although her alleged contributions are disputed and not clear.
Tribikos
The tribikos was a kind of alembic with three arms that was used to obtain substances purified by distillation. No one knows for sure whether Mary the Jewess was its inventor, but Zosimos credits the first description of this instrument to her. In her writings (quoted by Zosimos), she recommends that the copper or bronze used to create the tubes be the thickness of a frying-pan, and the joint between these tubes and the still-head be sealed with flour-paste.
Kerotakis
The kerotakis is a device used to heat substances used in alchemy and collect vapors. It is an airtight container with a sheet of copper suspended on the top. When working properly, all joints are in a tight vacuum. The use of such sealed containers in the Hermetic arts led to the term “hermetically sealed”. The mystical kerotakis was a reconstitution of the formation process of gold that was going on in the bowels of the earth.
Later, this instrument was modified by the German Franz von Soxhlet in 1879 to create the extractor that bears his name, Soxhlet extractor.
Bath
Her name survives in the invention of the water-bath or bain-marie, extensively used in chemical processes in which gentle heat is necessary. This term was introduced by Arnold of Villanova in the fourteenth century AD. From here. Looks like the main trio are all Alchemists. Ahhh!! Also you're welcome for my boredom for reviving an old thread. More misc. Alchemical stuff you can find here, that might show you where the plot is headed and that Miriam could be a force of destruction if she wanted to is confirmed in a way. Bad ending?
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Post by demiurgos on Aug 19, 2016 5:45:58 GMT -6
Now we're talking, dimlitcandle! Mysticism, gnostics and hidden esoteric knowledge all the way. Thanks for the links!
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Post by dimlitcandle on Sept 12, 2016 10:39:55 GMT -6
I always have more, this time for Gebel.
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Cale
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Post by Cale on Sept 30, 2016 0:13:41 GMT -6
I have been rereading some things on alchemy and looking over what Canopus wrote, I have some more revelations. The Red King [Rubedo/Gebel/Animus?] and White Queen [Albedo/Miriam/Anima?] are alchemical allegories, and their union represents the process of uniting opposites to create a greater, fully unified product of that union. This particular image comes from the Rosarium Philosophorum, or the Rosary or the Philosophers. It was published in 1550 and included twenty illustrations. Gender Divisions: Western thought has long identified a wide variety of concepts as being masculine or feminine. Fire and air are masculine while earth and water are feminine, for example. The sun is male and the moon is female. These basic ideas and associations can be found in multiple Western schools of thought. So the first and most obvious interpretation is that the Red King represents masculine elements while the White Queen represents female ones. Here they stand on a sun and moon, respectively. In some images, they are also flanked with plants bearing suns and moons on their branches. The Chemical Marriage: The union of Red King and White Queen is often called the chemical marriage. In illustrations, it is depicted as courtship and sex. Sometimes they are garbed, as if just starting to be brought together, offering each other flowers. Sometimes they are naked, preparing for consummation of their marriage that will eventually lead to an allegorical offspring, the Rebis (from the Latin res bina, meaning dual or double matter). While reading the Wikipedia article on the Philosopher's Stone (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosopher%27s_stone) I found this: " Middle Ages The 8th-century alchemist Jabir ibn Hayyan (Latinized as Geber) analyzed each classical element in terms of the four basic qualities. Fire was both hot and dry, earth cold and dry, water cold and moist, and air hot and moist. He theorized that every metal was a combination of these four principles, two of them interior and two exterior. From this premise, it was reasoned that the transmutation of one metal into another could be affected by the rearrangement of its basic qualities. This change would presumably be mediated by a substance, which came to be called al-iksir in Arabic (from which the Western term elixir is derived). It is often considered to exist as a dry red powder (also known as al-Kibrit al-Ahmar الكبريت الأحمر—red sulphur) made from a legendary stone—the philosopher's stone.[6][7] Jabir's theory was based on the concept that metals like gold and silver could be hidden in alloys and ores, from which they could be recovered by the appropriate chemical treatment. Jabir himself is believed to be the inventor of aqua regia, a mixture of muriatic (hydrochloric) and nitric acids, one of the few substances that can dissolve gold (and which is still often used for gold recovery and purification)" Sulfur and Mercury: Descriptions of alchemical processes often describe the reactions of sulfur and mercury. The Red King is sulfur, the active, volatile and fiery principle, while the White Queen is mercury, the material, passive, fixed principle. Mercury has substance, but is has no definitive form on its own. It needs an active principle to shape it. The lettering here has the King saying, in Latin, "O Luna, let me be thy husband," reinforcing the marriage imagery. The Queen, however, says "O Sol, I must submit to thee." This would have also been standard sentiment in a Renaissance marriage, but it also reinforces the nature of the passive principle. Activity needs material to take physical form, but passive material needs definition to be anything more than potential. The Dove: A person is comprised of three separate components: body, soul and spirit. The body is material and the soul spiritual. Spirit is a sort of bridge that connects the two. Here the dove (a common symbol of the Holy Spirit in Christianity, in comparison to God the Father (soul) and God the Son (body) offers a third rose, attracting both lovers together and acting as a sort of mediator between their contrasting natures. Alchemical Processes: The bringing together of the Red King and White Queen is sometimes described as reflecting the processes of both Albedo and Rubedo. Now. . . How does this all come back to Gebel? The three alchemical stages preceding Rubedo (Gebel) were: Nigredo (blackness) which represented putrefication and spiritual death. It is a subjectively experienced process brought about by the subject's painful, growing awareness of his shadow aspects'. It could be described as a moment of maximum despair, that is a prerequisite to personal development. As individuation unfolds, so 'confrontation with the shadow produces at first a dead balance, a standstill that hampers moral decisions and makes convictions ineffective or even impossible...nigredo, tenebrositas, chaos, melancholia'. Albedo (whiteness/Miriam) which represented purification. The alchemist undertakes a purification in Albedo, which is literally referred to as ablutio – the washing away of impurities. In this process, the subject is divided into two opposing principles to be later coagulated to form a unity of opposites or coincidentia oppositorum during Rubedo. Citrinitas (yellowness) literally referred to "transmutation of silver into gold" or "yellowing of the lunar consciousness." In alchemical philosophy, Citrinitas stood for the dawning of the "solar light" inherent in one's being, and that the reflective "lunar or soul light" was no longer necessary.; the solar dawn or awakening. Then Rubedo the fourth and final major stage in their magnum opus. Rubedo signalled alchemical success, and the end of the great work. But one thing still makes me wonder... The Rebis. After one has gone through the stages of putrefaction (Nigredo) and purification (Albedo), separating opposing qualities, those qualities are united once more in what is sometimes described as the divine hermaphrodite, a reconciliation of spirit and matter, a being of both male and female qualities as indicated by the male and female head within a single body. The sun and moon correspond to the male and female halves, just as the Red King and White Queen are similarly associated. The Rebis image appeared in the work Azoth of the Philosophers by Basil Valentine in 1613. During the 18th century it was suggested that the author of the works attributed to Basil Valentine was Johann Thölde ( Johannes!), a salt manufacturer in Germany who lived roughly 1565–1624. Azoth was considered to be a universal medication or universal solvent sought in alchemy (similar to another alchemical idealized substance, alkahest, that like azoth was the aim, goal and vision of many alchemical works). Its symbol was the Caduceus, and so the term, while originally a term for an occult formula sought by alchemists much like the philosopher's stone, became a poetic word for the element mercury. The word Azoth is also related to the Ain Soph (ultimate substance) of the Kabbalah(Johannes again). In his masterwork The Secret Teachings of All Ages. Manly P. Hall explained this connection: "The universe is surrounded by the sphere of light or stars. Beyond that sphere is Schamayim (שמים), the Hebrew word for 'heaven', who is the Divine Fiery(Gebel) Water(Miriam), the first outflow of the Word of God, the flaming river pouring from the presence of the eternal mind. Schamayim, who is this fiery Androgyne, divides. His Fire becomes Solar fire and his Water becomes Lunar water in our universe. Schamayim is the Universal Mercury or Azoth -- the measureless spirit of life. That original spiritual fiery water comes through Edem ("vapor" in Hebrew) and pours itself into the four main rivers of the four Elements. This comprises the River of Living Water—the Azoth—or fiery mercurial essence, that flows out from the throne of God and Lamb. In this Edem (vaporous essence or mist) is the first or spiritual Earth, the incomprehensible and intangible dust out of which God formed Adam Kadmon, the spiritual body of man, which must become fully revealed through time." Did Johannes lead the Alchemists to create Gebel and Miriam in their new "cursed" bodies? Johannes must be the one who is Gebel's Origin!
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Post by dimlitcandle on Oct 2, 2016 19:10:44 GMT -6
I have been rereading some things on alchemy and looking over what Canopus wrote, I have some more revelations. The Red King [Rubedo/Gebel/Animus?] and White Queen [Albedo/Miriam/Anima?] are alchemical allegories, and their union represents the process of uniting opposites to create a greater, fully unified product of that union. This particular image comes from the Rosarium Philosophorum, or the Rosary or the Philosophers. It was published in 1550 and included twenty illustrations. Gender Divisions: Western thought has long identified a wide variety of concepts as being masculine or feminine. Fire and air are masculine while earth and water are feminine, for example. The sun is male and the moon is female. These basic ideas and associations can be found in multiple Western schools of thought. So the first and most obvious interpretation is that the Red King represents masculine elements while the White Queen represents female ones. Here they stand on a sun and moon, respectively. In some images, they are also flanked with plants bearing suns and moons on their branches. The Chemical Marriage: The union of Red King and White Queen is often called the chemical marriage. In illustrations, it is depicted as courtship and sex. Sometimes they are garbed, as if just starting to be brought together, offering each other flowers. Sometimes they are naked, preparing for consummation of their marriage that will eventually lead to an allegorical offspring, the Rebis (from the Latin res bina, meaning dual or double matter). While reading the Wikipedia article on the Philosopher's Stone (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosopher%27s_stone) I found this: " Middle Ages The 8th-century alchemist Jabir ibn Hayyan (Latinized as Geber) analyzed each classical element in terms of the four basic qualities. Fire was both hot and dry, earth cold and dry, water cold and moist, and air hot and moist. He theorized that every metal was a combination of these four principles, two of them interior and two exterior. From this premise, it was reasoned that the transmutation of one metal into another could be affected by the rearrangement of its basic qualities. This change would presumably be mediated by a substance, which came to be called al-iksir in Arabic (from which the Western term elixir is derived). It is often considered to exist as a dry red powder (also known as al-Kibrit al-Ahmar الكبريت الأحمر—red sulphur) made from a legendary stone—the philosopher's stone.[6][7] Jabir's theory was based on the concept that metals like gold and silver could be hidden in alloys and ores, from which they could be recovered by the appropriate chemical treatment. Jabir himself is believed to be the inventor of aqua regia, a mixture of muriatic (hydrochloric) and nitric acids, one of the few substances that can dissolve gold (and which is still often used for gold recovery and purification)" Sulfur and Mercury: Descriptions of alchemical processes often describe the reactions of sulfur and mercury. The Red King is sulfur, the active, volatile and fiery principle, while the White Queen is mercury, the material, passive, fixed principle. Mercury has substance, but is has no definitive form on its own. It needs an active principle to shape it. The lettering here has the King saying, in Latin, "O Luna, let me be thy husband," reinforcing the marriage imagery. The Queen, however, says "O Sol, I must submit to thee." This would have also been standard sentiment in a Renaissance marriage, but it also reinforces the nature of the passive principle. Activity needs material to take physical form, but passive material needs definition to be anything more than potential. The Dove: A person is comprised of three separate components: body, soul and spirit. The body is material and the soul spiritual. Spirit is a sort of bridge that connects the two. Here the dove (a common symbol of the Holy Spirit in Christianity, in comparison to God the Father (soul) and God the Son (body) offers a third rose, attracting both lovers together and acting as a sort of mediator between their contrasting natures. Alchemical Processes: The bringing together of the Red King and White Queen is sometimes described as reflecting the processes of both Albedo and Rubedo. Now. . . How does this all come back to Gebel? The three alchemical stages preceding Rubedo (Gebel) were: Nigredo (blackness) which represented putrefication and spiritual death. It is a subjectively experienced process brought about by the subject's painful, growing awareness of his shadow aspects'. It could be described as a moment of maximum despair, that is a prerequisite to personal development. As individuation unfolds, so 'confrontation with the shadow produces at first a dead balance, a standstill that hampers moral decisions and makes convictions ineffective or even impossible...nigredo, tenebrositas, chaos, melancholia'. Albedo (whiteness/Miriam) which represented purification. The alchemist undertakes a purification in Albedo, which is literally referred to as ablutio – the washing away of impurities. In this process, the subject is divided into two opposing principles to be later coagulated to form a unity of opposites or coincidentia oppositorum during Rubedo. Citrinitas (yellowness) literally referred to "transmutation of silver into gold" or "yellowing of the lunar consciousness." In alchemical philosophy, Citrinitas stood for the dawning of the "solar light" inherent in one's being, and that the reflective "lunar or soul light" was no longer necessary.; the solar dawn or awakening. Then Rubedo the fourth and final major stage in their magnum opus. Rubedo signalled alchemical success, and the end of the great work. But one thing still makes me wonder... The Rebis. After one has gone through the stages of putrefaction (Nigredo) and purification (Albedo), separating opposing qualities, those qualities are united once more in what is sometimes described as the divine hermaphrodite, a reconciliation of spirit and matter, a being of both male and female qualities as indicated by the male and female head within a single body. The sun and moon correspond to the male and female halves, just as the Red King and White Queen are similarly associated. The Rebis image appeared in the work Azoth of the Philosophers by Basil Valentine in 1613. During the 18th century it was suggested that the author of the works attributed to Basil Valentine was Johann Thölde ( Johannes!), a salt manufacturer in Germany who lived roughly 1565–1624. Azoth was considered to be a universal medication or universal solvent sought in alchemy (similar to another alchemical idealized substance, alkahest, that like azoth was the aim, goal and vision of many alchemical works). Its symbol was the Caduceus, and so the term, while originally a term for an occult formula sought by alchemists much like the philosopher's stone, became a poetic word for the element mercury. The word Azoth is also related to the Ain Soph (ultimate substance) of the Kabbalah(Johannes again). In his masterwork The Secret Teachings of All Ages. Manly P. Hall explained this connection: "The universe is surrounded by the sphere of light or stars. Beyond that sphere is Schamayim (שמים), the Hebrew word for 'heaven', who is the Divine Fiery(Gebel) Water(Miriam), the first outflow of the Word of God, the flaming river pouring from the presence of the eternal mind. Schamayim, who is this fiery Androgyne, divides. His Fire becomes Solar fire and his Water becomes Lunar water in our universe. Schamayim is the Universal Mercury or Azoth -- the measureless spirit of life. That original spiritual fiery water comes through Edem ("vapor" in Hebrew) and pours itself into the four main rivers of the four Elements. This comprises the River of Living Water—the Azoth—or fiery mercurial essence, that flows out from the throne of God and Lamb. In this Edem (vaporous essence or mist) is the first or spiritual Earth, the incomprehensible and intangible dust out of which God formed Adam Kadmon, the spiritual body of man, which must become fully revealed through time." Did Johannes lead the Alchemists to create Gebel and Miriam in their new "cursed" bodies? Johannes must be the one who is Gebel's Origin! I was gonna post it, but I wanted to let you have fun figuring it out like I did~ This, however, I'm not gonna let you have fun with though. It's so beautiful. I believe 緋月エリ was right when Dippel is brought up.
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