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Post by XombieMike on Apr 25, 2017 23:05:00 GMT -6
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Post by ChucklesTheJester on Apr 26, 2017 4:17:41 GMT -6
I will listen to the broadcast right now, but I have to say HOLY SHIT LECARDE CHRONICLES 2 HAS VOICE ACTING BY ROBBIE BELGRADE? HOW IS THIS REAL?   And then I realized I still need to finish the first game.  |
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purifyweirdshard
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Apr 26, 2017 11:20:31 GMT -6
This one came out really well, even better than I thought! Also...wow I didn't realize I was talking that fast in a lot of this. I guess you can tell I was excited/talking about something I care about lol ;p  Hope everybody enjoys the questions and the nerding out. |
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Post by Galamoth on Apr 26, 2017 13:50:30 GMT -6
When you mentioned me in the video, I thought you were going to mention Ryngar Acia as well. We're both still on "The List", aren't we?  I will continue to push the ranking limits on this site by contributing what I think in the threads. Let's see what's beyond "Eternal Guardian"! |
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Post by crocodile on Apr 26, 2017 17:35:29 GMT -6
Great episode! My comments below: - FWIW, I really appreciate the forums. The Kickstarter comment section is unhelpful as you said and I personally hate using Reddit or Facebook for long discussions (or in general, especially Reddit ugh)
- Thanks for taking on the Playism podcast mantle in doing the BCB
- Order of Ecclesia is <3 <3 <3
- I don't think tech was the issue for previous 3D Igavanias. Lots of 3D action games were around at the time that were better. I just don't think IGA has proven himself adept at 3D games yet. Like if you want to let Platinum make a 3D Castlevania game than go for it but I'm not sure if IGA has honed his 3D chops enough the the past few years to pull it off
- LOL I guess that wasn't where I was expecting to get a shout out
- Tagging Mana so she can bathe in some of the praise laid upon her in this podcast
- No Mega Man R-rated project plz >_< I agree it sounds like it would be an edgelord supreme project. You don't need a project to be R-rated for there to be death, etc.
- The Hell Dimension/Cursed Castle ideas you guys had sound more fun than an Inverted Castle
- Johannes is SO BORING boooooooo. I'd rather he not be playable. Dominique seems cool (says fellow Christian)
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Post by CastleDan on Apr 27, 2017 8:32:03 GMT -6
I wish I felt the same as you guys that Order is better than Symphony. Mainly because I've been waiting for an Igavania to top that one and it just has not happened for me yet.
Bloodstained looks like it'll be the closest thing to do so because it mixes more of the things I loved about Symphony into the game than Order did, but it's still hard for me to deny the castle design, the music, the visual style, and all the cool little touches, let alone playing as Dracula's son is hard to top for me.
Also, Curse Of Darkness rules. While I thought Lament was the nicer looking game ( even tho it was far more repetitive) it did feel like they at least got the gameplay design right for the 3d games.
Great discussion overall!
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Apr 27, 2017 8:55:32 GMT -6
Great episode! My comments below: - I personally hate using Reddit or Facebook for long discussions (or in general, especially Reddit ugh)
- No Mega Man R-rated project plz >_< I agree it sounds like it would be an edgelord supreme project. You don't need a project to be R-rated for there to be death, etc.
- The Hell Dimension/Cursed Castle ideas you guys had sound more fun than an Inverted Castle
- Johannes is SO BORING boooooooo. I'd rather he not be playable. Dominique seems cool (says fellow Christian)
Thanks Croc! Replying to these in order:
Same lol. Facebook is a wasteland. I know ;_; ...had I known what was going on, I would have at least switched to Raiper, if not Iron Flail. heh. I mostly agree about the Mega Man thing. I do think it can work okay with X, there's more real conflict/drama with that. Thinking specifically about stuff like the X4 Maverick Zero scene, betrayals, ethics conflicts X has, etc. Under NO circumstances though should X ever be "okay with" violence, especially against humans. Dr. Light spent a long time on programming that. Thanks! I mostly want to see more crystalline/stained glass aesthetics in the game, as well as a cool "inverted" twist. Just have to make it interesting plot-wise. Hahaha I agree on wanting Dominique (obviously, I feel like I talk more about her than anything here lol), but I think there could be more to Johannes than that soft art of him we've seen. Hard to say. Miriam/Zangetsu/Dominique is a good bet from what we've seen from right now though, or even Miriam/Zangetsu/somebody else.
I wish I felt the same as you guys that Order is better than Symphony. Mainly because I've been waiting for an Igavania to top that one and it just has not happened for me yet.
Well let me be clear on the thought that I don't necessarily say it's "better", because I prefer SotN as a game still. It means more to me and is a favorite personally, and of course was the original. That doesn't prevent me from recognizing though the improvements and progression of design that went into OoE to make it most likely a better objective game experience. I kind of feel the same way about FF4 and 6 -- FF6 is pretty much just "better game" in most ways, but 4 has stuck with me a long time as a favorite because it was the first RPG with a real story/narrative that I played and had characters I cared about.
SotN is also just "cooler" and appeals to me in more personal ways that can't really be measured against.
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Post by CastleDan on Apr 27, 2017 9:09:37 GMT -6
Great episode! My comments below: - I personally hate using Reddit or Facebook for long discussions (or in general, especially Reddit ugh)
- No Mega Man R-rated project plz >_< I agree it sounds like it would be an edgelord supreme project. You don't need a project to be R-rated for there to be death, etc.
- The Hell Dimension/Cursed Castle ideas you guys had sound more fun than an Inverted Castle
- Johannes is SO BORING boooooooo. I'd rather he not be playable. Dominique seems cool (says fellow Christian)
Thanks Croc! Replying to these in order:
Same lol. Facebook is a wasteland. I know ;_; ...had I known what was going on, I would have at least switched to Raiper, if not Iron Flail. heh. I mostly agree about the Mega Man thing. I do think it can work okay with X, there's more real conflict/drama with that. Thinking specifically about stuff like the X4 Maverick Zero scene, betrayals, ethics conflicts X has, etc. Under NO circumstances though should X ever be "okay with" violence, especially against humans. Dr. Light spent a long time on programming that. Thanks! I mostly want to see more crystalline/stained glass aesthetics in the game, as well as a cool "inverted" twist. Just have to make it interesting plot-wise. Hahaha I agree on wanting Dominique (obviously, I feel like I talk more about her than anything here lol), but I think there could be more to Johannes than that soft art of him we've seen. Hard to say. Miriam/Zangetsu/Dominique is a good bet from what we've seen from right now though, or even Miriam/Zangetsu/somebody else.
I wish I felt the same as you guys that Order is better than Symphony. Mainly because I've been waiting for an Igavania to top that one and it just has not happened for me yet.
Well let me be clear on the thought that I don't necessarily say it's "better", because I prefer SotN as a game still. It means more to me and is a favorite personally, and of course was the original. That doesn't prevent me from recognizing though the improvements and progression of design that went into it to make it most likely a better objective game experience. I kind of feel the same way about FF4 and 6 -- FF6 is pretty much just "better game" in most ways, but 4 has stuck with me a long time as a favorite because it was the first RPG with a real story/narrative that I played and had characters I cared about.
I get you. I guess my point is, I think it depends on what people give more importance to. Like Crocodile and I have had this discussion and the way he looks at things are different than I. He doesn't like unnecessary features ( or what I like to call COOL features) whereas I think features don't have to be necessary if they add enjoyment or a cool factor. For me finding shields and collecting items was part of the fun of SOTN, I didn't need to shield to be super useful, I just love the aesthetic and the inclusion of them more than them not being there. For me discovering features that I had no idea existed in the game is more enjoyable then getting a prompt early on saying " YOU CAN DO THIS IF YOU PRESS THIS BUTTON". I feel like Order and the DS games were more streamlined and thats better for some people but that's in the eye of the beholder right? A person that doesn't want a streamlined experience would consider a streamlined game worse most likely and vise versa. For whatever improvements the DS game had for me they also screwed things up as well. So the balancing and difficulty is better but the castle design is way worse, they do this right but the familiars aren't as unique or interesting. So what's deemed better depends on where you put the importance in terms of gameplay, right? So, I can see how you can list SOTN as your favorite but think Order is the better game but I'm the weird case of SOTN is my favorite and to me it's a better game. It does have it's issues, like balancing. Sorry for the long rant, you know how much I love talking SOTN  |
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Apr 27, 2017 9:16:31 GMT -6
Yeah man, see that last line I edited in a few minutes ago...because I agree with your sentiments about how all that extra stuff really made it for me. There's a lot of "just because" stuff there that I really like that wasn't/may not be seen again in those later games. The feel and look of it was just better, too, but these are all things that are "to me" stuff.
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Post by CastleDan on Apr 27, 2017 9:29:34 GMT -6
Yeah man, see that last line I edited in a few minutes ago...because I agree with your sentiments about how all that extra stuff really made it for me. There's a lot of "just because" stuff there that I really like that wasn't/may not be seen again in those later games. The feel and look of it was just better, too, but these are all things that are "to me" stuff. It is a "to me" thing but I'd wager that isn't a minority feeling though. The cool features and coolness of the game itself is definitely a big part of it but the biggest thing for me is the location and music. The DS games just don't come close in terms of design, and that's the biggest problem for me. If I'm not engaged with the environment i'm exploring than it won't cut it for me. SOTN didn't have that issue because: 1. Awesome castle design. 2. Lots of cool secrets/features. I have a question though, I constantly see Order Of Ecclesia as a lot of peoples favorite of the handheld Igavania's. Can you explain your reasoning why you think that is? As deep of an explanation as you can. I always wondered what it was about the game, I was always an Aria fan myself. I think it never latched on for me because it felt kinda oldschool Castlevania with it's very level based design. I'm not a fan of hub type worlds. To me the open design was a natural evolution and going back to levels is a regression. Sorry for all the SOTN talk. I know it must be annoying for some people. :/ After this post I'll switch to something else. |
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Post by Mana on Apr 28, 2017 3:50:09 GMT -6
After coming back from Reboot Develop in Croatia and all the endless voice recording sessions, I'm blasting this in our empty office (coincidentally, everyone's off to other offices). I love the usual podcasts but this inverted podcast with purifyweirdshard is really refreshing. Thanks for the shoutout and I had a good chuckle at Ben's reality bomb part. Speaking of shoutout, we met the artist ( Nell Fallcard) for the Castlevania The Lecarde Chronicles 2 cover at Pixelatl, Mexico. We think your artwork is awesome so as a fellow artist myself, keep up the great work! And oh man, I didn't think I would hear Tim Follin's name in there. XombieMike You might already know the game and the music, but I would also recommend ActRaiser soundtrack by Yuzo Koshiro, that would definitely be up your alley. |
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Post by XombieMike on Apr 28, 2017 6:09:34 GMT -6
I loved playing the first ActRaiser as a kid, and Yuzo Koshiro is a legend. I'm glad you dig the episode Mana, I didn't know you enjoyed VGM to the point you knew composers like Follin and Yuzo Koshiro. I mean, I knew you liked Castlevania music but it's obvious now that you appreciate game music beyond a few favorites. This just adds another layer of awesomeness to your character. |
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Lestaroth
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Post by Lestaroth on Apr 28, 2017 17:20:34 GMT -6
Thanks XombieMike and purifyweirdshard for the BCB! So let's see if I can have the right thoughts on this. - Thank you Mike and the other founders of these forums. I do feel that this community is really significant now and it's always good to have fans that have all sorts of experiences, affinities and preferences, but also skills. And we do function well together! Like I said in the Croatia conference thread, I am so happy and glad th at Artplay and co. are much into healthy ethics, especially because some other kickstarter-based games met mitigated results.
I am sure it will come out in a beautiful way.
- Lecarde Chronicles 2, yes, I'm playing it... It's a slightly tough game. Classic action. Robert Belgrade voicing some of it. Plain awesome.
I should play the first too...
- So, FF VI, Belmont's Revenge, Order of Ecclesia, the Megaman series? Yes, these are some of my favorites too.
By the way Mike, did you get the Shadowgate remake available on Steam? The Fantasy Heroes Bundle includes it for cheap!
- I was one of the guys who took the Game Boy to get its music recorded on tape... Walkman and all! Good moments.
- When it comes to composers, Hitoshi Sakimoto & Masaharu Iwata (FFT), Noriyuki Iwadare (Lunar series), Masashi Hamauzu (Saga Frontier II), Motoi Sakuraba (Tales series, Valkyrie Profile series), Hiroki Kikuta (Seiken Densetsu 3)* are some of the classic RPG composers I love to no end.
The Castlevania, Megaman, Street Fighter and King of Fighters various composers are some of my favorites too. Daisuke Ishiwatari (Guilty Gear) kicks serious ass too!
When it comes to indie composers, Garoad (Cyberpunk Bartender Action VA-11 HALL-A) and Jake Kaufman (Shantae, Double Dragon Neon) are great names as well. - When I think of it, Megaman and Castlevania introduced me to rock. Even I got affinity with classical music because the BGM playing in Wolfgang Krauser's stage (Fatal Fury) is actually from Mozart! Guilty Gear got plenty of heavy metal. Seiken Densetsu 3 got many tribal-sounding tracks. Etc. - Mana as a Bloodstained illustrator? Yes! I'd even want her to make some custom artwork, available in the gallery. - When it comes to Adi Shankar and a Megaman Animated Series, I'd prefer him to work on the Megaman Zero series. Plenty of gritty moments in a post-apocalyptic world to get there. The classic Megaman series wouldn't work at all. The Megaman X series could fit, but X and Zero are not ruthless enough. They sure are really tormented though. I'm sure I'll have other thoughts flowing around if my post gets discussed on... Stay tuned! Thanks for reading! *Kikuta is composing for the Indivisible game! I'm super glad they chose him for it! |
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Post by Galamoth on Apr 28, 2017 17:57:39 GMT -6
- When it comes to Adi Shankar and a Megaman Animated Series, I'd prefer him to work on the Megaman Zero series. Plenty of gritty moments in a post-apocalyptic world to get there. The classic Megaman series wouldn't work at all. The Megaman X series could fit, but X and Zero are not ruthless enough. They sure are really tormented though. *Kikuta is composing for the Indivisible game! I'm super glad they chose him for it! . If Adi Shankar's really going for a darker, R-rated kind of animated Mega Man series (and he wants to base it on a particular part of the timeline), the Zero series would honestly be the best candidate. To add onto the post-apocalyptic feeling (in the past, a colony crash wiped out most human life, and a major war wherein 90% of all Reploids were destroyed), there's heroes on both sides of the conflict (relatively-speaking). ^ There's potential for a very tragic "White-and-Grey" theme, wherein most of the villains of the Zero series aren't exactly "evil" in the truest sense of the word (and actually believe that they're doing the right thing). Copy X believes his actions preserve humankind, Elpizo wanted to be strong enough to protect his fellow Reploids, and Dr. Weil was convinced that Reploids were [by default] all dangerous and must be controlled... before his sanity was driven off the deep end, that is. By far the only non-sympathetic villain of the Zero series would be Omega, the one directly responsible for laying waste to the Earth and wiping out 90% of Reploids in the first place. As for Hiroki Kikuta composing for Indivisible; Yeah, that's awesome. He also composed for games in the Mana series and Soul Calibur V, if I recall correctly. |
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Post by BalancedHydra on Apr 28, 2017 21:40:16 GMT -6
- When it comes to Adi Shankar and a Megaman Animated Series, I'd prefer him to work on the Megaman Zero series. Plenty of gritty moments in a post-apocalyptic world to get there. The classic Megaman series wouldn't work at all. The Megaman X series could fit, but X and Zero are not ruthless enough. They sure are really tormented though. *Kikuta is composing for the Indivisible game! I'm super glad they chose him for it! . If Adi Shankar's really going for a darker, R-rated kind of animated Mega Man series (and he wants to base it on a particular part of the timeline), the Zero series would honestly be the best candidate. To add onto the post-apocalyptic feeling (in the past, a colony crash wiped out most human life, and a major war wherein 90% of all Reploids were destroyed), there's heroes on both sides of the conflict (relatively-speaking). ^ There's potential for a very tragic "White-and-Grey" theme, wherein most of the villains of the Zero series aren't exactly "evil" in the truest sense of the word (and actually believe that they're doing the right thing). Copy X believes his actions preserve humankind, Elpizo wanted to be strong enough to protect his fellow Reploids, and Dr. Weil was convinced that Reploids were [by default] all dangerous and must be controlled... before his sanity was driven off the deep end, that is. By far the only non-sympathetic villain of the Zero series would be Omega, the one directly responsible for laying waste to the Earth and wiping out 90% of Reploids in the first place. Or it could be a bridge between the X and Zero series. Cool episode purifyweirdshard and XombieMike . |
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Apr 28, 2017 22:20:52 GMT -6
That's not all Yuzo Koshiro has done... ;p
This is the most iconic from him for me though:
Thanks for the feedback guys! The only thing I would have against MMZ being Shankar's choice (aside from the quite possible silliness of R-rated MM in general heh) is the relative obscurity of it. Mega Man is a fairly well-known franchise (a good bit moreso than Castlevania, I'd say), but for most of the audience, I can see this happening:
"...huh? Woah, there's a new Mega Man TV show/movie and it's not some silly kid's stuff? Sounds great! Er...Mega Man Zero? I didn't play that...and is that even Mega Man?"
Classic MM is for the widest, "lowest common denominator" approach, but it's certainly not as amenable to the Shankar treatment, so X seems like a decent middle ground to me - not just for themes/content wise, but also something the larger fanbase can be excited about. This isn't to say I didn't play or like the Zero games myself, I made sure to get A or S in boss fights to get those EX skills hahaha, and the overall feel of the series does have that cool dystopian feel to it...but even so, I would take a step back on the whole thing.
It would be comparable to me if he had chosen OoE as the Castlevania to depict. Great characters, story, lots of locales to use, most all of us agree it's an awesome game, but there again, the greater fanbase would say "They lost me. Huh...I don't even see a Belmont? It's not in a castle? Lame...missed opportunity, 1/5 stars" lol. CV3 was a great choice, SotN would be kind of like an "X" choice imo, and things might start getting questionable with the latter portable games unfortunately.
I know he's all about doing things for hardcore fans, but even so, I imagine these things need to do well to a certain degree, especially if it's to be expected that there's more later. If one of the bigger MM properties blows up first, MMZ might would be more possible?
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Post by lod7 on Apr 29, 2017 0:21:11 GMT -6
castledan Avatar Apr 27, 2017 9:29:34 GMT -6 castledan said: I have a question though, I constantly see Order Of Ecclesia as a lot of peoples favorite of the handheld Igavania's. Can you explain your reasoning why you think that is? As deep of an explanation as you can. I always wondered what it was about the game, I was always an Aria fan myself. I think it never latched on for me because it felt kinda oldschool Castlevania with it's very level based design. I'm not a fan of hub type worlds. To me the open design was a natural evolution and going back to levels is a regression. Sorry for all the SOTN talk. I know it must be annoying for some people. :/ After this post I'll switch to something else. IMO Order gets people's attention because of its battle mechanics. It felt very demon/dark souls where you have a stamina bar. Not to mention the early game difficulty spike in comparison to other titles. It may regressed in its level design but it offers a nice evolution to its battle mechanics. Which to some fans mayb enough to make it their personal favorite title. I know I am not the person you asked this but as a fan of OoE these were the first thoughts in my head and the reasons I would use to try and convince others to like this title. PS the Magnes and Redire combo = the most fun movement option in any metroidvania |
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Apr 29, 2017 1:26:06 GMT -6
My bad CastleDan, it slipped my mind you asked that earlier. So to add to what lod7 said already, yeah, a big part of it for a lot of folks I think is the balance of difficulty that it offered. It was almost "refreshingly" challenging throughout, even in the later game. At no point did I really feel like I was much stronger than anything the game could throw at me, which is fairly unusual in these games. I know there are some pretty powerful combinations of glyphs in the game, but not to the level of the myriad options in SotN that trivialize everything that can fight you. More than that, the "different"-ness of it otherwise was great in that it took the old formula in a new direction, as I think a lot of players (not necessarily me) would be thinking the old ways of being bound to basically one location or interconnected location was getting stale. PoR was kind of halfway as far as that goes - there were different locations technically, but they were all linked together by the painting warps, so it still didn't give the feeling of globe trotting that games like Bloodlines and OoE do. Going even further with the refreshing and good new-ness of the game was how, as we addressed in the BCB, it had so very little to do with the established canon yet still shines as an example of a great Castlevania game regardless. It leaned only on the basics of the genre and fleshed out new things for most of everything else, while still being received as really good by us vets and casual folks/reviewers alike. It was like a successful risk of stepping forward and being different that worked, and a good deal of respect is earned when that happens from people who otherwise look into this series and think it's always the same stuff. And yep, that again leads me to the Bloodstained comparison. OoE with not all that much to do with Castlevania but still being a great game in pretty much all respects gives us a precedent for what Bloodstained can become. IGA has essentially done it before. |
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Galamoth
Ancient Legion
Eternal Guardian
[TI2] Boss of the Floating Catacombs. Hopes nobody finds his hidden Beryl Circlet.
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Galamoth
[TI2] Boss of the Floating Catacombs. Hopes nobody finds his hidden Beryl Circlet.
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Post by Galamoth on Apr 29, 2017 9:47:07 GMT -6
BalancedHydra purifyweirdshard I guess it may also depend on the conclusion that Adi Shankar would go for in this theoretical R-rated Megaman series. Bittersweet? (A somewhat happy ending, but with some sad notes thrown in; a sacrifice?) = End of the Zero series. Depressing? (Ending wherein it feels like nobody really "won", and many scores of people died in the process?) = Bridge between X and Zero series.
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CastleDan
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Post by CastleDan on Apr 29, 2017 15:06:26 GMT -6
My bad CastleDan , it slipped my mind you asked that earlier. So to add to what lod7 said already, yeah, a big part of it for a lot of folks I think is the balance of difficulty that it offered. It was almost "refreshingly" challenging throughout, even in the later game. At no point did I really feel like I was much stronger than anything the game could throw at me, which is fairly unusual in these games. I know there are some pretty powerful combinations of glyphs in the game, but not to the level of the myriad options in SotN that trivialize everything that can fight you. More than that, the "different"-ness of it otherwise was great in that it took the old formula in a new direction, as I think a lot of players (not necessarily me) would be thinking the old ways of being bound to basically one location or interconnected location was getting stale. PoR was kind of halfway as far as that goes - there were different locations technically, but they were all linked together by the painting warps, so it still didn't give the feeling of globe trotting that games like Bloodlines and OoE do. Going even further with the refreshing and good new-ness of the game was how, as we addressed in the BCB, it had so very little to do with the established canon yet still shines as an example of a great Castlevania game regardless. It leaned only on the basics of the genre and fleshed out new things for most of everything else, while still being received as really good by us vets and casual folks/reviewers alike. It was like a successful risk of stepping forward and being different that worked, and a good deal of respect is earned when that happens from people who otherwise look into this series and think it's always the same stuff. And yep, that again leads me to the Bloodstained comparison. OoE with not all that much to do with Castlevania but still being a great game in pretty much all respects gives us a precedent for what Bloodstained can become. IGA has essentially done it before. (and now a slight correction on Castlevania games I have played from the podcast) hey I kinda-sorta misspoke in the BCB about playing certain games. I think I said something like "I didn't play Rondo", but what I meant was I didn't play that when it came out as a kid, but did after a while...it took a bit.
I remember at that time playing SotN, the Prologue stage starts with that intro saying "Final Stage: Bloodlines" and since I hadn't played Bloodlines yet either, I was pretty confused lol, like "this is what Bloodlines was like? what this doesn't make any sense"
lol cause yeah it was hard to find Bloodlines back in the day.
Anyway my CV progression was kind of like CV1 > 3 > 4 > SNES Dracula X > SotN > CotM > HoD > LoI > Aria > CV2, Bloodlines probably? I may have played these earlier, but this is around when emulation started for me > CoD > Dawn > Portrait > DxC > Order > ReBirth > Despair if you want to count it. So, I haven't played any of the 64 or OG Gameboy games.
All of this was pretty much as they were released until I caught up on some I missed, and I emulated the GBA games because they (especially CotM) were hard to see. My vision is bad anyway and that game didn't help lol, it's pretty good though. Ah, that's probably why it isn't that high up on the list for me and why I think SOTN is a better game. Difficulty and combat mechanics are not important elements in Castlevania's to me. I can see someone think it's the best if those are important though. I can also imagine classic Castlevania fans preferring something like Order to SOTN. Really enjoy these podcasts! Keep up the good work. |
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