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Post by darkbrotherhood on Jul 11, 2015 11:52:57 GMT -6
Things I'm hoping for: Double jump Dive kick or downward sword (Zelda 2) Dash (forward or backward) Run Slide kick Short distance teleport (maybe?) Am I missing anything? backflip maybe?
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Cale
Great Old One
Ancient Legion
The world is indeed comic, but the joke is on mankind.
Posts: 624
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Cale
The world is indeed comic, but the joke is on mankind.
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Post by Cale on Jul 11, 2015 12:33:27 GMT -6
Things I'm hoping for: Double jump Dive kick or downward sword (Zelda 2) Dash (forward or backward) Run Slide kick Short distance teleport (maybe?) Am I missing anything? backflip maybe? Would Back Dash and Backflip be the same mechanic? If you had invincibility frames for example. If not then I don't see much of a use for Back Dash since Backflip would move back and up, allowing you to dodge vertical and horizontal attacks at the same time. You could make Back Dash still useful if you make it twice as far, or twice as quick though.
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Thomas
Ancient Legion
[TI0] Real Time VFX all day long!
Posts: 370
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[TI0] Real Time VFX all day long!
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Post by Thomas on Jul 11, 2015 13:54:37 GMT -6
Would Back Dash and Backflip be the same mechanic? If you had invincibility frames for example. If not then I don't see much of a use for Back Dash since Backflip would move back and up, allowing you to dodge vertical and horizontal attacks at the same time. You could make Back Dash still useful if you make it twice as far, or twice as quick though. Single tap = backdash, double tap = backflip?
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Galamoth
Ancient Legion
Eternal Guardian
[TI2] Boss of the Floating Catacombs. Hopes nobody finds his hidden Beryl Circlet.
Posts: 3,402
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Galamoth
[TI2] Boss of the Floating Catacombs. Hopes nobody finds his hidden Beryl Circlet.
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Post by Galamoth on Jul 11, 2015 15:27:15 GMT -6
ChucklesTheJester: How about a continuous Dash, by holding down the Dash button? (presumably one of the "shoulder" buttons on a portable system or console-controller, opposite the Back-Dash button) Probably as a later-game relic, like the "Black Panther" Soul in AoS.
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lod7
New Blood
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Post by lod7 on Jul 11, 2015 21:10:42 GMT -6
I am surprised no one here mentioned the magnes and redire combo in order of ecclesia
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Post by alialkhiro on Jul 13, 2015 13:24:01 GMT -6
I would like something like that in Bloodstained ^ ^
Also, what do you think about a move to create a temporary platform underfoot during a jump? The character can stand on the platform, attack and/or jump off of it in any direction. The platform created by this move lasts a short duration and there is a limit on how many can be created per ground touch. The player may be able to upgrade the move to make the platform last longer or increase the platform limit per ground touch.
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Galamoth
Ancient Legion
Eternal Guardian
[TI2] Boss of the Floating Catacombs. Hopes nobody finds his hidden Beryl Circlet.
Posts: 3,402
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Ancient Legion
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Galamoth
[TI2] Boss of the Floating Catacombs. Hopes nobody finds his hidden Beryl Circlet.
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Post by Galamoth on Jul 13, 2015 13:55:37 GMT -6
I would like something like that in Bloodstained ^ ^ Also, what do you think about a move to create a temporary platform underfoot during a jump? The character can stand on the platform, attack and/or jump off of it in any direction. The platform created by this move lasts a short duration and there is a limit on how many can be created per ground touch. The player may be able to upgrade the move to make the platform last longer or increase the platform limit per ground touch. That would definitely be far more useful than that "Cubus" Glyph in Order of Ecclesia. Your idea kinda reminds me of the "Magnet Beam" from the very first Mega Man game, too.
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lod7
New Blood
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Post by lod7 on Jul 14, 2015 10:45:18 GMT -6
I would like something like that in Bloodstained ^ ^ Also, what do you think about a move to create a temporary platform underfoot during a jump? The character can stand on the platform, attack and/or jump off of it in any direction. The platform created by this move lasts a short duration and there is a limit on how many can be created per ground touch. The player may be able to upgrade the move to make the platform last longer or increase the platform limit per ground touch. The con to having an option/upgrade like this in the game is it might make some rooms more empty, vertically, then it should. Wasting potential more rooms from existing. Unless there is no late game ability like the bat/owl transformation or super jump. In this way the castle would still have vertical freedom but not feel empty like the side tower area in dawn of sorrow or the waterfall areas in SotN and aria. I still prefer the magnes and redire combo for the sake of having an early platforming ability that gets upgraded into a full blown traversal option horizontally and vertically end game. The extra platforms may feel useful in the beginning but it will not make you feel as empowered by end game like the combo, super jump, transformation, or speed up abilities. Going past this quote/point It would pretty much be mandatory to have a speed up option in this game for the sheer amount of rooms it will contain. 1600 is nothing to laugh about and having these fast options in portrait of ruin and order of ecclesia where they carried over into NG+ was a god send.
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Post by CastleDan on Jul 14, 2015 10:56:57 GMT -6
I REALLY want a gravity boots type of function. I always always always loved it. SOTN's still looked the coolest so maybe they can top the design of that version. Hope they at least try doing that idea again.
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Post by alialkhiro on Jul 14, 2015 11:42:27 GMT -6
The con to having an option/upgrade like this in the game is it might make some rooms more empty, vertically, then it should. Wasting potential more rooms from existing. Unless there is no late game ability like the bat/owl transformation or super jump. In this way the castle would still have vertical freedom but not feel empty like the side tower area in dawn of sorrow or the waterfall areas in SotN and aria. I have no idea what you are talking about; how can a vertical move lead to rooms being vertically empty? What I am suggesting wouldn't replace the features you mentioned; it is simply a double jump with a tactical application. I still prefer the magnes and redire combo for the sake of having an early platforming ability that gets upgraded into a full blown traversal option horizontally and vertically end game. I think it is very cool too, but you can have that and a double jump, no? And I doubt they would put the exact same thing that they did in a previous game in Bloodstained; they are likely to go for a lot of innovation wherever they can (and I am praying for that). Also, there are a lot of spells and three playable characters in this game, they might put many options and leave it to the players to pick the ones they like the most. The extra platforms may feel useful in the beginning but it will not make you feel as empowered by end game like the combo, super jump, transformation, or speed up abilities. Well, they can also be used to avoid ground covering enemy attacks, positioning yourself at enemy weakness height or just to make some distance with the enemy while casting spells or using ranged weapons. It is a tactical move, not a power move. Going past this quote/point It would pretty much be mandatory to have a speed up option in this game for the sheer amount of rooms it will contain. 1600 is nothing to laugh about and having these fast options in portrait of ruin and order of ecclesia where they carried over into NG+ was a god send. I agree 100%
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lod7
New Blood
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Post by lod7 on Jul 14, 2015 12:21:23 GMT -6
Definitely love the enemy avoiding idea. So atleast we can keep the super jump/transformations for traversal and still have a use for this ability.
Going as my understanding of the plaform ability though is that you are able to make one at any time after a jump correct with a limit of one or two? I am imagining the cloud power up in Mario Galaxy 2 that allowed you to make 3 platforms in succession. Now with that understanding with just one platform alone and the double jump ability you can effectively quadruple jump. Leaving some rooms to be just a long vertical stretch of nothing, no platforms, and such in your way. This is what I mean by empty vertical space.
There will be less platforming challenges because of this added safety feature and when challenges do present it self platforms will be spaced a great distance.
Watch some gameplay of alice madness returns and this shows how giving a player too much vertical freedom early on can adversely affect the level design of a video game. That game has a ton of empty space to make room for the ability to jump 3 times in the air after the initial jump.
This platform making ability seems like an early game upgrade and in doing so the level design should reflect on that, otherwise it would give the player too much freedom in the exploration of the castle. Metroidvania types gradually give the player upgrades that allow further exploration of the world in this case the castle. This ability early on coupled with the double jump may destroy that sense of progression. Possible remedy to this would just place the double jump ability later in the game.
TL;DR I like the idea but the abilities should be spaced out in a way that the metroidvania style isn't destroyed. So if you gain this ability early on then the double jump ability should be a late game upgrade so the platforming doesn't consist of a bunch of empty space in between.
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Post by alialkhiro on Jul 14, 2015 12:43:34 GMT -6
You make some good points there and I agree. I was thinking of this ability as a replacement for the double jump (you can have one of the two since they practically have the same effect on traversing). It can make platforming much easier, but if it was a slow ability (landing then jumping off of the platform is slower than a double jump) then people who like their platforming easy and don't mind losing time (like myself) will use it while players who like challenging platforming and speed can opt for the double jump. I played Alice and I think they wanted to allow the player a chance to focus on the artistic backgrounds and environment thus providing a very easy platforming and no penalty on falling (I don't think that was a wise decision though). PS: It appears that you are very knowledgeable about games, would you mind providing your insight on this?
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lod7
New Blood
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Post by lod7 on Jul 14, 2015 13:12:37 GMT -6
Actually I got most of my information on podcasts and interviews from Igarashi during the bloodstained campaign, people asking him howhis thought process was on video games.
Another source of information is this one youtuber called Matthewmatosis he makes compelling arguments on some of the most famous/infamous games in the industry and although he agrees to a certain extent that these games are good/bad he breaks down the game design as a whole for each title and sees the merits they all have as well as the flaws they have. I like how he was able to explain ill feelings I had about the titles that I played that he critiqued and made me realize just how ingenius some titles are in how they are planned and built.
I will reply to your other topic in that post.
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Maker
Loyal Familiar
[TI1]
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inherit
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Post by Maker on Jul 16, 2015 9:36:40 GMT -6
Omnia Vanitas is a 100% must have. Don't care what character gets it. Must have. From those old CvHod days... omi-omi-omi-aluc- BLOOD CROSS! And down goes Beelzebub like the shambling corpse he was thanks two no lifer bums wearing berserker armor.
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Galamoth
Ancient Legion
Eternal Guardian
[TI2] Boss of the Floating Catacombs. Hopes nobody finds his hidden Beryl Circlet.
Posts: 3,402
inherit
Ancient Legion
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Galamoth
[TI2] Boss of the Floating Catacombs. Hopes nobody finds his hidden Beryl Circlet.
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Post by Galamoth on Jul 16, 2015 13:48:47 GMT -6
Omnia Vanitas is a 100% must have. Don't care what character gets it. Must have. From those old CvHod days... omi-omi-omi-aluc- BLOOD CROSS! And down goes Beelzebub like the shambling corpse he was thanks two no lifer bums wearing berserker armor. Who knows? Miriam herself might have something similar as an ability.
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Arcueid Brunestud
True Ancestor
Ancient Legion
[TI1] Just your friendly neighborhood True Ancestor!
Posts: 1,667
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Arcueid Brunestud
[TI1] Just your friendly neighborhood True Ancestor!
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Post by Arcueid Brunestud on Jul 16, 2015 14:02:28 GMT -6
Omnia Vanitas is a 100% must have. Don't care what character gets it. Must have. From those old CvHod days... omi-omi-omi-aluc- BLOOD CROSS! And down goes Beelzebub like the shambling corpse he was thanks two no lifer bums wearing berserker armor. Who knows? Miriam herself might have something similar as an ability. Maybe like this!
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Galamoth
Ancient Legion
Eternal Guardian
[TI2] Boss of the Floating Catacombs. Hopes nobody finds his hidden Beryl Circlet.
Posts: 3,402
inherit
Ancient Legion
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Galamoth
[TI2] Boss of the Floating Catacombs. Hopes nobody finds his hidden Beryl Circlet.
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Post by Galamoth on Jul 16, 2015 14:28:54 GMT -6
Who knows? Miriam herself might have something similar as an ability. Maybe like this! Certainly.
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Cale
Great Old One
Ancient Legion
The world is indeed comic, but the joke is on mankind.
Posts: 624
inherit
Great Old One
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Apr 8, 2021 18:19:41 GMT -6
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Cale
The world is indeed comic, but the joke is on mankind.
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Jun 11, 2015 3:45:35 GMT -6
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Post by Cale on Jul 16, 2015 18:48:41 GMT -6
After image.
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Galamoth
Ancient Legion
Eternal Guardian
[TI2] Boss of the Floating Catacombs. Hopes nobody finds his hidden Beryl Circlet.
Posts: 3,402
inherit
Ancient Legion
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Aug 19, 2023 8:35:43 GMT -6
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Galamoth
[TI2] Boss of the Floating Catacombs. Hopes nobody finds his hidden Beryl Circlet.
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Post by Galamoth on Jul 16, 2015 19:40:09 GMT -6
After image. Ooh! Me likey! (*Golem voice*)
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Rigel
Skull Knight
Loyal Familiar
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Post by Rigel on Jul 27, 2015 23:28:31 GMT -6
Richter backflip, yeah!
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