BalancedHydra
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Post by BalancedHydra on Jan 11, 2017 11:01:13 GMT -6
I'm not concerned with some "graphical issues" at this point. Priority 1 is superb gameplay. Prettying things up come in the much later stages of development.
#GameplayOverGraphics
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Post by CastleDan on Jan 11, 2017 11:46:29 GMT -6
I actually prefer the more dull and muted color palette we're seeing now. I think it probably reflects the castle's master's state of mind. I want variety, perhaps colorful places that are somewhat more dear, or personal to both Miriam and Gebel, as they are connected. With different styles, we can get all kinds of feelings. Being goth in heart, I feel darkness, grey and black on white is nice, it it tends to get too dull after a while, even if the blood of my enemies would "light up" the floors and walls. Naa.. Give me different scenarios, give me the feel of progression, claustrophobic sensation that we are getting closer to a source, a void or a nightmare. Have colorful areas will make the dark so much frightening. The game had SOME nice looking areas but largely it was bland and not graphically impressive. This was another one of the games people compared Bloodstained's visuals too which seemed bizarre to me.   I mean idk ..... |
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purifyweirdshard
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jan 11, 2017 12:09:01 GMT -6
Give DxC a break, it's a 3D PSP game haha. That console can't really match even the PS2, so for the much smaller resolution we were all playing DxC in on that system, it was pretty good.
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Post by earthfield on Jan 11, 2017 12:33:07 GMT -6
You know, many didn't like Vepar's colors, and that is being addressed. IGA hears what is said. Even if you don't like the final details about how the game looks, keep in mind that at least on PC you may be able to reskin everything like FatihG did for the E3 demo. A picture is worth 1000 words and tracends language translation barriers. Maybe if you Photoshop an image you can get your point across more effectively. Vepar issue was the colour and at the time it wasn't. The issue is they were too saturated, and used colours like Cyan that are too strainful for the eye. I'm sorry for my terrible photoshop but here's a little sample of my point:  So, in the first pic, we have the village, and bellow I marked the layers of depth. From clearer to darkest we have the ground we can walk on to the furthest background. My issue with the colours is that relying on natural shading makes harder to separate foreground from background. See how the chariot almost merges with the ground (This is ok) and the walls of the houses (this is not) Below that, we have Shantae, with a few more layers of depth, but that's not what's important. What's important is how clear is the difference of background and foreground. Since the screens are flat, we can't get the natural depth perception we get by seeing real objects with out naked eyes. So, to compensate that flatness of the screen, it's important to keep stuff separated. What bother me from what's shown so far, is that so far, the team is relying on the natural illumination and shading of U4, instead of tweaking it to fit the needs to make something that resembles the older games. Which is something I shown before; and those 2.5D pics that were show earlier also manage to do, even though they took such a brown-ish colour scheme. I hope this helps explain my point. |
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Astaroth
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Post by Astaroth on Jan 11, 2017 13:06:30 GMT -6
theres other things to consider in that concept art the bulk of the color is in the outside lighting and tapestry but the castle itself is still very gray, not unlike the ingame castle entrance actually is right now (i wouldnt be surprised if a later pic of this area has a reddened background and looks even more like the concept art in terms of color scheme) the entrance/village area and art assets are still being developed so there may be more elements planned for those areas that just arent there yet like tapestries, furniture, enemies, candles, the backer paintings, etc that entrance 'hall' (actually its more like an open arcade) is open to the forest, so its very exposed to elements and so a high level of weather damage and leeched color actually makes sense in that area, whereas a more 'protected' portion of the castle may have way more color to it theres likely plenty of places throughout the castle thatll have color schemes that range from muted to vibrant based on things like the purpose of the area, whats the underlying feeling they are supposed to invoke, what 'story' this place is supposed to convey, how it flows from one room/area to the other with transition rooms, etc basically, if every room is this overwhelming amount of colors then you lose a portion of the uniqueness each area can bring, and with a little tweaking im sure iga will be able to balance the issue of platforms being visible vs platforms sticking out too much (a fine line btw) in a way that can be replicated across the game and then go through making the tweaks as each area gets closer to its final form |
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Post by estebant on Jan 11, 2017 15:18:31 GMT -6
I'm not concerned with some "graphical issues" at this point. Priority 1 is superb gameplay. Prettying things up come in the much later stages of development. #GameplayOverGraphics I agree with this. Once they start teasing enemies and weapons I will probably be doing less lurking and more contributing to the conversation. |
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Post by CastleDan on Jan 11, 2017 19:14:13 GMT -6
Give DxC a break, it's a 3D PSP game haha. That console can't really match even the PS2, so for the much smaller resolution we were all playing DxC in on that system, it was pretty good. My point was to point out the ridiculous of saying bloodstained looks as bad as DXC. More hyperbole. For its time DXC looked fine but no way bloodstained looks level to it, it blows it out of the water |
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Post by crocodile on Jan 11, 2017 19:45:38 GMT -6
I think 5 times over budget is wrong... it's 5 times over the original budget but stretch goals aren't included in such. Well, if we were to make numbers now, they asked for 500.00, but got 5.545.991. That's over eleven times what they asked. On the other hand the campaign launched clearly stating they secured a publisher that asked them to gather those 500.000 to see if there was interest for the game. If memory serves, that's 10% of the budget they needed to secure, so the real budget was 5.000.000, that was going to be given by the publisher, once the campaign succeeded. Now, we supposedly have 5.545.991 plus 4.500.000 given by the publisher, so if we are going to be precise, that's roughly over two times the final budget. And this is where it gets messier. When they announced the delay to 2018; they also announced they partnered with 505. So, were they the original publisher that requested to run the KS campaign? Are they gonna put that 4.500.000 they were supposed to received to make the core game if they aren't? Bloody hell, I've been looking into the 10% thing, but reading all the updates I couldn't find a source, so that might as well be wrong. In any case, it's not as much, but let's say they have just the 5.545.991 KS budget, less 5% percent of KS fees, which is 277.299,55, that leave us with 5.268.691.45, and I'm not counting the Slacker Backer funding. Mostly because last time I heard it wasn't that big of a number. Then we have the stretch goals, and the whole rewards from some of the high tier backers, I know those ain't gonna be cheap, but still, it can't cost the extra 5.045.991 extra they got over the initial campaign goal. I'm far from being a producer for my word to be worth anything more than a fan rant, though.  But it's cool we can debate about this, ever since the campaign launched I've been at the edge of my seat for this, and it's the first time I've backed something, so I've never been a role like this before, and I know I may come as overbearing, but that's how much I'm excited for this. FWIW, the article that talks about the publisher contribution (90%) was a Gamasutra article near the KS launch. That being said, as you alluded to, who knows how that arrangement may have changed with 505 at the helm since it seems they weren't there at the start. It's all very unclear. I would also of course add that more money =/= better visuals. It depends a lot on what art direction and methods they choose to work with, etc. Lots of expensive games look ugly and lots of cheap games (or games on weaker hardware) look excellent. I'm not concerned with some "graphical issues" at this point. Priority 1 is superb gameplay. Prettying things up come in the much later stages of development. #GameplayOverGraphics I think EVERYONE agrees with your perspective but that doesn't mean the visuals/aesthetics/graphics are above critique. Not to say you are arguing that either but then I don't think "gameplay over graphics" is really a rebuttal to anyone who has visual concerns even if its 100% accurate. It's like arguing past them? |
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Kale
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Post by Kale on Jan 12, 2017 2:08:04 GMT -6
I think 5 times over budget is wrong... it's 5 times over the original budget but stretch goals aren't included in such. Well, if we were to make numbers now, they asked for 500.00, but got 5.545.991. That's over eleven times what they asked. On the other hand the campaign launched clearly stating they secured a publisher that asked them to gather those 500.000 to see if there was interest for the game. If memory serves, that's 10% of the budget they needed to secure, so the real budget was 5.000.000, that was going to be given by the publisher, once the campaign succeeded. Now, we supposedly have 5.545.991 plus 4.500.000 given by the publisher, so if we are going to be precise, that's roughly over two times the final budget. And this is where it gets messier. When they announced the delay to 2018; they also announced they partnered with 505. So, were they the original publisher that requested to run the KS campaign? Are they gonna put that 4.500.000 they were supposed to received to make the core game if they aren't? Bloody hell, I've been looking into the 10% thing, but reading all the updates I couldn't find a source, so that might as well be wrong. In any case, it's not as much, but let's say they have just the 5.545.991 KS budget, less 5% percent of KS fees, which is 277.299,55, that leave us with 5.268.691.45, and I'm not counting the Slacker Backer funding. Mostly because last time I heard it wasn't that big of a number. Then we have the stretch goals, and the whole rewards from some of the high tier backers, I know those ain't gonna be cheap, but still, it can't cost the extra 5.045.991 extra they got over the initial campaign goal. I'm far from being a producer for my word to be worth anything more than a fan rant, though. But it's cool we can debate about this, ever since the campaign launched I've been at the edge of my seat for this, and it's the first time I've backed something, so I've never been a role like this before, and I know I may come as overbearing, but that's how much I'm excited for this. The difference still doesn't factor in stretch goals. It's 11 times or whatever, but it also has corresponding stretch goals. So it's never really over budget. I'm not playing with numbers, just stating that it's not over budget if the total unlocked stretch goals. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2017 1:53:02 GMT -6
I'm not concerned with some "graphical issues" at this point. Priority 1 is superb gameplay. Prettying things up come in the much later stages of development. #GameplayOverGraphics Bad visuals might not deter your gaming experience, but they are an issue for most people and that's the problem. The game needs to look as good as possible, without compromising the quality of other aspects of the game, in order to move a lot of copies. We all want the franchise to have a future, right? |
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Galamoth
Ancient Legion
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Post by Galamoth on Jan 13, 2017 9:14:09 GMT -6
I'm not concerned with some "graphical issues" at this point. Priority 1 is superb gameplay. Prettying things up come in the much later stages of development. #GameplayOverGraphics Bad visuals might not deter your gaming experience, but they are an issue for most people and that's the problem. The game needs to look as good as possible, without compromising the quality of other aspects of the game, in order to move a lot of copies. We all want the franchise to have a future, right? As much as I agree on how unfortunate that is, that many people rely only on the visuals, I'm actually not worried in the least. Bloodstained is still only in an alpha phase, last I've heard, but healthy criticism may indeed help it in the long run. I mean, despite the [relatively] limited budget of this indie game. It's not too limited. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2017 9:34:32 GMT -6
I mean, despite the [relatively] limited budget of this indie game. It's not too limited. It's far from limited, as the assumed indie budget here (10 mil) is between 10-20% of a triple A one. However, the percentage does drop if a good part of the budget is planned for marketing. Well, whatever the visual quality of the final product ends up being like, I'm sure everything else will be great and I genuinely hope BS will be a big success, both for Iga's sake and ours. |
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Olrox
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Post by Olrox on Jan 13, 2017 20:05:24 GMT -6
I actually prefer the more dull and muted color palette we're seeing now. I think it probably reflects the castle's master's state of mind. Its almost like the world is infected and sickly much like our protagonist is. The super saturated colors in that concept art feels pretty inappropriate for BS's subject matter. Also, gothic settings and aesthetics always lends itself to subdued color choices. Dissolution and bright vibrant colors feel like a conflict of character. Completely agree, dull, grit and muted colors represent perfectly what this castle means. It's gothic and in ruin, it shouldn't be overly saturated nor completely clean. Sure they can play with the degree of washed textures like how they mentioned a while ago they washed the roof a bit too much, but I for the most part agree on the artstyle and the color palette choosen. |
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Post by hex on Jan 17, 2017 6:09:48 GMT -6
The same as Mana in the shoutbox, I'm wondering what would be the overall takeaway from all this, to tell to IGA and the team. All in all, I guess the things that need to be done are only small polishing (turn down the lighting on the platforms 5-10%, strengthen Miriam's shadow when on the platforms). Also be sure to let the fans see a version of this stage later on when these small tweaks have been done and when there are enemies/villagers/rodents/bats around - to give us a more rounded picture of what the finished project is going to look like.
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Post by Astaroth on Jan 17, 2017 11:47:54 GMT -6
curious what mana had to say now, but i think well see these areas again and the progression of development should help those not familiar with the huge amount of backend elements and code that go into making that image sort of visualise the timeline, and i gotta say, that these levels are now built in ways that allow the devs to go in and tweak most things to their liking in minutes as opposed to hours or days really does help, used to have to wait up to 2 minutes each time i did a render in maya, and trust me that adds up REALLY quick over a day of working on a scene
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Post by Enkeria on Jan 17, 2017 15:27:20 GMT -6
curious what mana had to say now, but i think well see these areas again and the progression of development should help those not familiar with the huge amount of backend elements and code that go into making that image sort of visualise the timeline, and i gotta say, that these levels are now built in ways that allow the devs to go in and tweak most things to their liking in minutes as opposed to hours or days really does help, used to have to wait up to 2 minutes each time i did a render in maya, and trust me that adds up REALLY quick over a day of working on a scene Makes additions to levels, mechanics and game modes easier too as future patches. |
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Post by hex on Jan 18, 2017 1:11:19 GMT -6
About the bright / dull color schemes: I also like the "dull" scheme to be perfectly ok. And, using it gives the opportunity to splash color - when needed - to a great dramatic effect (such as that awesome bloodred sun and sky beaming from the castle windows).
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Pure Miriam
Legendary Comrade
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Post by Pure Miriam on Jan 18, 2017 8:48:04 GMT -6
I'm lost. What Mana said?
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purifyweirdshard
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jan 18, 2017 9:18:56 GMT -6
All she said was that she was going over the village thread to compile feedback for the team.
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LeoLeWolferoux
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Post by LeoLeWolferoux on Jan 18, 2017 23:40:43 GMT -6
I'm not concerned with some "graphical issues" at this point. Priority 1 is superb gameplay. Prettying things up come in the much later stages of development. #GameplayOverGraphics I agree with this. Once they start teasing enemies and weapons I will probably be doing less lurking and more contributing to the conversation. Or enemies with weapons.  |
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