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Post by CastleDan on Jun 24, 2015 11:49:01 GMT -6
Something I absolutely loved about SOTN was the design and layout of the castle. It's one of the most important aspects because it makes the experience more believable if the location itself feels lived in.
Use this thread to discuss aspects of IGAVANIA castle design that you liked and maybe things you found were missteps.
For me personally, I loved how many unique rooms there were in SOTN. Every location had a lot of unique areas in it. Outer wall with it's elevator, with the telescope at the bottom, chapel with the bells, hugeeeeee staircase that keeps going up to the right and the confession room.
There's a lot of unique areas.. On top of all that they had inhabitants that brought a sense of a lived in feeling. Like the guy that took you across the water in the ferry...
As far as missteps it seemed like after SOTN ( and I assume this was because of time limitation and budget) but it seems like the later castles relied more on copy and pasting rooms and less of an organic feel. There were tons of repeat designs in each location and far less unique rooms. Flat hallway into boxed room rinse and repeat.
Any other details? Ideas? Pros cons....
Might be helpful to jot it down here in case developers take a gander.
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Post by ghaleon on Jun 24, 2015 13:32:55 GMT -6
yeah SoTN was really good at making the castle feel like an actual castle/mansion/home thing. It was also nice how they didn't all have a start and an end with a boss at the end.
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Post by CastleDan on Jun 24, 2015 13:58:20 GMT -6
Yeah, another thing to note about the layout design.
I love how SOTN was spaced out nicely...
The map of the castle was like --------------------------------------------------------------, I remember IGA commented saying the idea is that when you got all the way to the right you could see how big the game would be. Which is why they make you go all the way to the right of the map at the beginning. It's just good design sense. They let the areas organically connect like a castle would instead of making it feel quite gamey with locations being scrunched together in unrealistic ways.
You gotta wonder though if a lot of the design limitations were because of the other games coming out on handheld. It's such a small screen so you gotta design accordingly.
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Cale
Great Old One
Ancient Legion
The world is indeed comic, but the joke is on mankind.
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The world is indeed comic, but the joke is on mankind.
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Post by Cale on Jun 24, 2015 14:46:59 GMT -6
Giant Library. Every castle needs at least one. A chapel, great for castles. All that stone, must get pretty dull. . . grey, grey, grey, maybe throw in a garden? Torture chamber, required. Barracks, required. Master Bedroom. . . 9gif
I lost track of my thoughts. . . Carry on.
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Ancient Legion
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[TI2] Boss of the Floating Catacombs. Hopes nobody finds his hidden Beryl Circlet.
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[TI2] Boss of the Floating Catacombs. Hopes nobody finds his hidden Beryl Circlet.
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Post by Galamoth on Jun 24, 2015 14:51:26 GMT -6
I'd like to see a gigantic Library area, even a Clock Tower and Arms Depot area.
I especially loved the Floating Gardens from Aria of Sorrow and the Skeleton Caves in Order of Ecclesia and Harmony of Dissonance.
I'm pretty sure we're likely to see a Catacombs area as well.
(EDIT): Please let there be a Mirror Castle (Castle B) too! I'd definitely be interested to go through another equally large bizarre version of the Castle.
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Post by Ravenspear on Jun 24, 2015 15:08:54 GMT -6
Actually, I really wish for an epic castle, where the outside would be far more used than in SotN
(I'll edit later all the ideas I've had that I lost trying to send a previous post)
An entrance, a throne room, living quarters, halls, ballroom, balustrade, fourneaux, a treasury, caves, swamp, an overgrown tower where a gigantic alora une reside 9gif a cemetery of ideas, a graveyard, a manufactory, torture rooms, sacred grounds (many), unholy grounds, a gate to elsewhere (not to teleport inside the castle), summoning grounds, horlogerie, a zoo, an tower lodging flying type of enemies, alchemy labs of curse, submerged grounds, an observatory, receptacle of the ether, an attic with a giant spider, a colisseum, an iceberg (Lol), a waterfall that's really just a huge fountain, the wine cellar, of course
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Great Old One
Ancient Legion
The world is indeed comic, but the joke is on mankind.
Posts: 624
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Cale
The world is indeed comic, but the joke is on mankind.
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Post by Cale on Jun 24, 2015 15:24:04 GMT -6
Actually, I really wish for an epic castle, where the outside would be far more used than in SotN
(I'll edit later all the ideas I've had that I lost trying to send a previous post) The opening scene with Alucard in SotN looked really interesting. Wish we could have explored the forest, and all the trees in the background of the Royal Chapel, or the area behind the Colosseum.
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Galamoth
Ancient Legion
Eternal Guardian
[TI2] Boss of the Floating Catacombs. Hopes nobody finds his hidden Beryl Circlet.
Posts: 3,402
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[TI2] Boss of the Floating Catacombs. Hopes nobody finds his hidden Beryl Circlet.
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Post by Galamoth on Jun 24, 2015 15:25:46 GMT -6
Actually, I really wish for an epic castle, where the outside would be far more used than in SotN
(I'll edit later all the ideas I've had that I lost trying to send a previous post)
An entrance, a throne room, living quarters, halls, ballroom, balustrade, fourneaux, a treasury, caves, swamp, an overgrown tower where a gigantic alora une resided 9gif a cemetery of ideas, a graveyard, a manufactory, torture rooms, sacred grounds (many), unholy grounds, a gate to elsewhere (not to teleport inside the castle), summoning grounds, horlogerie, a zoo, an tower lodging flying type of enemies, alchemy labs of curse, submerged grounds, an observatory, receptacle of the ether, an attic with a giant spider, a colisseum, an iceberg (Lol), a waterfall that's really just a huge fountain, the wine cellar, of course So many ideas!
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Post by samuraifoochs on Jun 24, 2015 15:42:30 GMT -6
Actually, I really wish for an epic castle, where the outside would be far more used than in SotN
(I'll edit later all the ideas I've had that I lost trying to send a previous post)
An entrance, a throne room, living quarters, halls, ballroom, balustrade, fourneaux, a treasury, caves, swamp, an overgrown tower where a gigantic alora une reside 9gif a cemetery of ideas, a graveyard, a manufactory, torture rooms, sacred grounds (many), unholy grounds, a gate to elsewhere (not to teleport inside the castle), summoning grounds, horlogerie, a zoo, an tower lodging flying type of enemies, alchemy labs of curse, submerged grounds, an observatory, receptacle of the ether, an attic with a giant spider, a colisseum, an iceberg (Lol), a waterfall that's really just a huge fountain, the wine cellar, of course I humbly disagree. Not in the sense that things being outdoors some wouldn't be a welcome change in some ways, but more because one of the things I loved most about SOTN (which is probably my favorite game ever of all time in any genre) was the feeling of being enveloped and surrounded by the castle. It wasn't that the castle itself was restricting, but more that the game did a fantastic job of making you feel surrounded by a living, breathing castle, and you had to fight your way out. I'm sure whatever comes out will be AMAZING especially since it's IGA's biggest castle ever, just my two cents. Maybe it's just me!
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Galamoth
Ancient Legion
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[TI2] Boss of the Floating Catacombs. Hopes nobody finds his hidden Beryl Circlet.
Posts: 3,402
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[TI2] Boss of the Floating Catacombs. Hopes nobody finds his hidden Beryl Circlet.
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Post by Galamoth on Jun 24, 2015 15:50:30 GMT -6
Actually, I really wish for an epic castle, where the outside would be far more used than in SotN
(I'll edit later all the ideas I've had that I lost trying to send a previous post)
An entrance, a throne room, living quarters, halls, ballroom, balustrade, fourneaux, a treasury, caves, swamp, an overgrown tower where a gigantic alora une reside 9gif a cemetery of ideas, a graveyard, a manufactory, torture rooms, sacred grounds (many), unholy grounds, a gate to elsewhere (not to teleport inside the castle), summoning grounds, horlogerie, a zoo, an tower lodging flying type of enemies, alchemy labs of curse, submerged grounds, an observatory, receptacle of the ether, an attic with a giant spider, a colisseum, an iceberg (Lol), a waterfall that's really just a huge fountain, the wine cellar, of course I humbly disagree. Not in the sense that things being outdoors some wouldn't be a welcome change in some ways, but more because one of the things I loved most about SOTN (which is probably my favorite game ever of all time in any genre) was the feeling of being enveloped and surrounded by the castle. It wasn't that the castle itself was restricting, but more that the game did a fantastic job of making you feel surrounded by a living, breathing castle, and you had to fight your way out. I'm sure whatever comes out will be AMAZING especially since it's IGA's biggest castle ever, just my two cents. Maybe it's just me! I agree on the feeling of being inside this gigantic castle for the whole game, but some areas are bound to have a view of the outside too. Not to mention that some areas of the Castle are bound to look bizarrely different from what we might expect in a castle (partly due to this one being incredibly large). I'm hoping that some areas of Bloodstained's castle are more chaotic, like the Demon Castle itself from the Castlevania series.
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Post by samuraifoochs on Jun 24, 2015 16:00:11 GMT -6
I humbly disagree. Not in the sense that things being outdoors some wouldn't be a welcome change in some ways, but more because one of the things I loved most about SOTN (which is probably my favorite game ever of all time in any genre) was the feeling of being enveloped and surrounded by the castle. It wasn't that the castle itself was restricting, but more that the game did a fantastic job of making you feel surrounded by a living, breathing castle, and you had to fight your way out. I'm sure whatever comes out will be AMAZING especially since it's IGA's biggest castle ever, just my two cents. Maybe it's just me! I agree on the feeling of being inside this gigantic castle for the whole game, but some areas are bound to have a view of the outside too. Not to mention that some areas of the Castle are bound to look bizarrely different from what we might expect in a castle (partly due to this one being incredibly large). I'm hoping that some areas of Bloodstained's castle are more chaotic, like the Demon Castle itself from the Castlevania series. Definitely! Some outdoor vistas are welcome, but I'd like for them to still be walled in. As an example, think of how the opening level of Castlevania IV looked. Brilliant stuff. I also love the idea of different buildings connected to the castle like an observatory or the like. Maybe a demonic greenhouse? I suppose it's sort of like the idea of the Bloodstained castle not necessarily being a single building, but more a self-contained compound.
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Galamoth
Ancient Legion
Eternal Guardian
[TI2] Boss of the Floating Catacombs. Hopes nobody finds his hidden Beryl Circlet.
Posts: 3,402
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[TI2] Boss of the Floating Catacombs. Hopes nobody finds his hidden Beryl Circlet.
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Post by Galamoth on Jun 24, 2015 16:08:56 GMT -6
I agree on the feeling of being inside this gigantic castle for the whole game, but some areas are bound to have a view of the outside too. Not to mention that some areas of the Castle are bound to look bizarrely different from what we might expect in a castle (partly due to this one being incredibly large). I'm hoping that some areas of Bloodstained's castle are more chaotic, like the Demon Castle itself from the Castlevania series. Definitely! Some outdoor vistas are welcome, but I'd like for them to still be walled in. As an example, think of how the opening level of Castlevania IV looked. Brilliant stuff. I also love the idea of different buildings connected to the castle like an observatory or the like. Maybe a demonic greenhouse? I suppose it's sort of like the idea of the Bloodstained castle not necessarily being a single building, but more a self-contained compound. I hope it does end up that way, too. Based on concept artwork so far, I think the Bloodstained castle is already shaping up to be a castle with multiple buildings/towers/wings/etc. images.eurogamer.net/2013/articles/1/7/5/6/1/0/2/revelada-imagem-de-arte-do-castelo-de-bloodstained-ritual-of-the-night-143215399958.png
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Executor of the Church
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Post by Ciel on Jun 24, 2015 16:46:26 GMT -6
I agree on the feeling of being inside this gigantic castle for the whole game, but some areas are bound to have a view of the outside too. Not to mention that some areas of the Castle are bound to look bizarrely different from what we might expect in a castle (partly due to this one being incredibly large). I'm hoping that some areas of Bloodstained's castle are more chaotic, like the Demon Castle itself from the Castlevania series. Definitely! Some outdoor vistas are welcome, but I'd like for them to still be walled in. As an example, think of how the opening level of Castlevania IV looked. Brilliant stuff. I also love the idea of different buildings connected to the castle like an observatory or the like. Maybe a demonic greenhouse? I suppose it's sort of like the idea of the Bloodstained castle not necessarily being a single building, but more a self-contained compound. That would be great. And what about endless corridors or labyrinths inside the castle, maybe inside a cursed room or something? I think we never saw something like that in a Castlevania, or maybe I'm remembering wrong?
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Arcueid Brunestud
True Ancestor
Ancient Legion
[TI1] Just your friendly neighborhood True Ancestor!
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Post by Arcueid Brunestud on Jun 24, 2015 16:59:01 GMT -6
Iga confirmed that there wouldn't be any outdoor parts of the level. Everything will be strictly within the castle. So forests will be some glorified indoor castle garden, and caves will be the basement of the castle.
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Post by SookyLala on Jun 24, 2015 17:11:12 GMT -6
*Warning* Possible Spoilers of Symphony of the Night!
I really enjoyed SoTN's layout in the first castle, you know, so many secret rooms to encounter. Using a spell, and breaking a little bit of a wall, and realizing there is a secret behind it, was really exciting.
It was really awesome how everything seemed seamless, you know, there were places in locations that just made sense for a castle's design, like the underground caverns, you actually had to make your way down below the castle to get to this area, or the chapel, it's higher up on the left side of the castle, intersecting into some of the towers. It was really cool.
The second castle.. Well, as much as I enjoyed the second castle, I felt it was more filler, and just slapped in there(I realize IGA and the team had a budget/timelimit to contend with, so I am definitely not upset). It would have been cool if maybe some secret areas were in different spots and things like that, and new enemies, I mean, there were some new enemies, but to see bosses of the first castle in groups made me a little sad, I thought those were hardcore one of a kind bosses, but instead they were common enemies. Sorry, gone a bit off track.
TL;DR I like finding secrets, and I don't like finding the same secret areas in an upside down castle, especially when the copies had less than average items in it.
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Post by Ravenspear on Jun 24, 2015 17:19:22 GMT -6
Iga confirmed that there wouldn't be any outdoor parts of the level. Everything will be strictly within the castle. So forests will be some glorified indoor castle garden, and caves will be the basement of the castle. When referring to something else, please specify your source. You're talking about ask IGA 2 and what was said is there won't be area outside the castle boundaries, but that doesn't mean there couldn't be inner outside areas
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Arcueid Brunestud
True Ancestor
Ancient Legion
[TI1] Just your friendly neighborhood True Ancestor!
Posts: 1,667
inherit
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[TI1] Just your friendly neighborhood True Ancestor!
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Post by Arcueid Brunestud on Jun 24, 2015 17:40:55 GMT -6
Iga confirmed that there wouldn't be any outdoor parts of the level. Everything will be strictly within the castle. So forests will be some glorified indoor castle garden, and caves will be the basement of the castle. When referring to something else, please specify your source. You're talking about ask IGA 2 and what was said is there won't be area outside the castle boundaries, but that doesn't mean there couldn't be inner outside areas Which is technically still within the castle. And I couldn't be bothered to search for the specific interview I found the info from, but I'll post the source next time in that case.
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Executor of the Church
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Post by Ciel on Jun 24, 2015 17:46:40 GMT -6
Iga confirmed that there wouldn't be any outdoor parts of the level. Everything will be strictly within the castle. So forests will be some glorified indoor castle garden, and caves will be the basement of the castle. When referring to something else, please specify your source. You're talking about ask IGA 2 and what was said is there won't be area outside the castle boundaries, but that doesn't mean there couldn't be inner outside areas 3:13. Edit: What a useful thumbnail here, lol.
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Post by ghaleon on Jun 24, 2015 19:30:27 GMT -6
I don't recall who but I recall someone saying they don't want the castle to be too big because if it's too big then they'll just copy paste stuff over and over again... not necessarily, that's an assumption, though do expect to see rooms copied and pasted for roguelike mode regardless of the castle size, unless it's some strange not-random roguelike =P, pretty sure they mentioned it would be procedurally generated though.
Also, I recall some people saying the castle will be 4x bigger or some such. While I would like that I wouldn't get my hopes up. I can't imagine they'd have a stretch goal specific to being 25% larger and it actually be 4X larger, they would have said 4x larger if so.
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Galamoth
Ancient Legion
Eternal Guardian
[TI2] Boss of the Floating Catacombs. Hopes nobody finds his hidden Beryl Circlet.
Posts: 3,402
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[TI2] Boss of the Floating Catacombs. Hopes nobody finds his hidden Beryl Circlet.
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Post by Galamoth on Jun 25, 2015 7:23:49 GMT -6
Definitely! Some outdoor vistas are welcome, but I'd like for them to still be walled in. As an example, think of how the opening level of Castlevania IV looked. Brilliant stuff. I also love the idea of different buildings connected to the castle like an observatory or the like. Maybe a demonic greenhouse? I suppose it's sort of like the idea of the Bloodstained castle not necessarily being a single building, but more a self-contained compound. That would be great. And what about endless corridors or labyrinths inside the castle, maybe inside a cursed room or something? I think we never saw something like that in a Castlevania, or maybe I'm remembering wrong? You know what else I'd really like? Secret Rooms within Secret Rooms within Secret Rooms...SECRETCEPTION. Hidden Areas within Hidden Areas, man. Awesome. ghaleon: I said that I'd love it if the Castle was 4x the size of SotN's castle. I can't say that it will be. It's most likely going to be IGA's biggest castle yet, though. Bloodstained's castle is certainly going to be bigger than any of the incarnations of Castlevania in past games.
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