Pure Miriam
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Post by Pure Miriam on Oct 9, 2016 3:12:47 GMT -6
Back in april, i did a thread like this before, before we had any info about Shard System and didn't knew much of how the game would be yet. Nowthat we have much more info about the game, it's the time to return to this discussion! Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night will have familiars. Traditionally, familiars are magical beings that follows and helps mages on most of RPGs, cultures and myths. Castlevanias of the past used them and on Bloodstained, with all it's Alchemy setting, familiars will fit even better. Now, with the Shard System revealed, we know that Familiars will be a specific type of Shard. Considering that we don't know everything about the Shard System yet or the much of the game itself yet, the Familiars can work on many different ways. Let's discuss on how Familiars should be, and take a look on how Familiars were used on Igavanias in the past. FAMILIARS ON SYMPHONY OF THE NIGHT
Symphony of the Night was the first game to feature familiars. They were obtained as Relics, magical itens that can be turned ON and OFF, and they had a separate level system, with EXP going from 0 to 100 on each level. They also gained more abilities with more leves, not just getting generally stronger, with new spells for Demon and more Bats for Bat, for instance. And even some secrets, like the Sword Brothers spell, or the fact that if you reach LV 50 with Sword, it turns into a optional weapon that can also be upgraded by leveling up the Familiar itself. FAMILIARS ON ARIA OF SORROW AND DAWN OF SORROW
Familiars on the Sorrow series where little more than soul powers. They changed a little when you increased the number of souls you had (on Dawn of sorrow) but nothing more than that. Most of then just used the same power over and over again and they were allocated on Guardian Soul. FAMILIARS ON CURSE OF DARKNESS
For me, the MOST FUN type of familiar on the whole series, since the whole game is based on that. Although Curse of Darkness is a questionable game, the game's familiars (called Innocent Devils) could change to a variety of forms, depending on crystals you harnessed by killing monsters with specific weapons and those familiars could give you new, unleveled ones so you could level more familiars on different paths. Of course, Curse of Darkness relies on their familiars as the game's main magic system, that's why it's so elaborate. FAMILIARS ON ORDER OF ECCLESIA
Order of Ecclesia had familiars as Glyphs, they leveled up on power and usage by absorbing the same Glyph over and over again, from LV1 to LV3. CLOSING COMMENTS
How you want the familiars to work on Bloodstained? Shards that you simply summon? They need a separate level system based on EXP, Shard acumulation, Alchemy work on those Shards to make them more powerful, different forms? Also, how diverse you want familiars to be? Mostly attackers? Some healers? Any unusual idea? That's all folks!
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Post by Scars Unseen on Oct 9, 2016 6:06:12 GMT -6
First of all, I think that rather than being called familiars, they should be called homunculi, which have more presence in alchemical lore rather than magical. And in keeping with that, I think that they should be crafted in a more refined version of what we had in Curse of Darkness. Maybe form them from inert shards or something similar. Additionally, I think they should have a bit of personality, interacting with background elements(imagine a homunculus that sets every clock you pass by to 12:00) and running commentary in various situations such as if you stand idle for an extended period of time.
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Olrox
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Post by Olrox on Oct 9, 2016 18:09:45 GMT -6
Familiars in previous games have all been a little repetitive in the way that they always either stand behind you or fly around the screen.I would love a skeleton familiar, maybe a full skeleton who doesn't fly, just for the sake of having something like a buddy with you exploring the castle.
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Post by CastleDan on Oct 9, 2016 23:20:29 GMT -6
SOTN's system with a bit more of the usage and practically of curse of darkness. Nothing like the sorrow games.
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Post by chozo13 on Oct 10, 2016 7:58:05 GMT -6
SOTN's system with a bit more of the usage and practically of curse of darkness. Nothing like the sorrow games. I agree, I liked the differences between the familiars and how it affected the way you played in SotN. While I did love the Sorrow games, the familiar system felt like an afterthought.
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LuckPercentSRL
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Post by LuckPercentSRL on Oct 10, 2016 8:19:19 GMT -6
SOTN kinda had a little bit of a playstyle in terms of it's familiars. Which ever one you wanted was going to be the one with the most exp since that is the one you've used the most. Not to mention some familiars in SOTN helped you find secrets and goodies or sometimes they'll hit an enemy that is out of your reach which is great.
If bloodstained had to choose, it would be SOTN for me.
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Post by CastleDan on Oct 10, 2016 8:31:06 GMT -6
The good thing is it SEEMS like the SOTN type system because in the sorrow games you had to equip a familiar out of a variety of different souls some that weren't even familiars.
Whereas in Bloodstained the Familiars have their own option much like in SOTN, and it looked like I saw a level function too. All good signs pointing to a deeper system.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2016 9:43:04 GMT -6
Giving us a variety of active and passive ones would be pretty darn cool.
By active I mean familiars that openly engage enemy and perform actions on their own, so you could have a bat or bird types that go after the enemy, lesser demons that shoot spells and stuff like that. They could also offer support by healing or collecting enemy drops for you.
Passive ones would be those that complement your actions, being akin to Nero's DT in DMC4 or the Shaman King ghost possession thingy. So, basically, when you attack, your familiar will follow suit. A knight could make a large sword swing after you damage the enemy or a quick spear jab at the same time you attack. It could pull up a shield as you backstep/dash and do a spinning attack as you double jump.
Now, to not make either of these broken (or useless by minimizing their damage output) there should be something to limit their summoning and actions. A familiar magic bar that would decrease whenever the familiar performs an action would be for the best, I believe. Summoning the familiar itself would use up a chunk of your MP bar, with the consumed MP being transferred to the familiar bar and the player having the option to refresh the familiar one at any given moment.
The reason I'm suggesting a familiar bar instead of just sharing the MP bar with the familiar is so that the player has more control over the situation. Having the familiar spend your MP in a crucial moment would be pretty bad. Additionally, this allows for the player to prepare for a battle beforehand, as they can summon backup and then wait to recover their MP without suffering any negative side effects.
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Pure Miriam
Legendary Comrade
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Post by Pure Miriam on Oct 11, 2016 1:05:34 GMT -6
Your idea of a separate bar just for familiars is a really good idea @nyahahaha .
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Post by spideryfingers on Oct 11, 2016 18:33:11 GMT -6
I'm always amused by the tiny fairy from Harmony of Dissonance ... who clobbers the enemy with a huge mallet! Gets me every time
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Post by Busterific on Oct 11, 2016 19:35:30 GMT -6
I think you should be able to feed the familiars shards to level them up. The amount of XP they earn from a shard would depend on how rare it is.
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Post by Galamoth on Oct 14, 2016 9:25:31 GMT -6
Pure Miriam Actually, I have something to add about how Familiars worked specifically in Dawn of Sorrow. While Familiars were indeed all relegated to Soul powers in that game (mostly Guardian Souls and a couple Bullet Souls), there was another way to strengthen their attacks besides just collecting more of the same Soul (until it capped at 9). Dawn of Sorrow had " Soul Combinations". You had to equip certain Bullet, Guardian, and/or Enchantment Souls together to achieve added effects. Just a few examples. Skull Archer + Amalaric Sniper = While charging an arrow, an Amalaric Sniper appears behind the player to give support fire. Slogra + Gaibon + Skeleton Ape = Gaibon will appear to throw spears alongside the player at a further distance than normal. (The "Skeleton Ape" Soul increases the distance of many, if not all, projectile-based Bullet Souls) Mini Devil + Guillotiner = Both monsters will attack together on either side of the player (essentially summoning two Familiars at once). Une + Alura Une = When you summon Alura Une to defend you, it will also throw Unes to damage enemies (yet another double-summon). Basically, aside from their own unique abilities, I'd personally like it if the Familiars were able to complement and/or provide support specific to attacks from certain Shards that Miriam will gain from her demonic enemies. Although, I do agree that Miriam's Familiars should function more like SOTN's, instead of taking up slots in Miriam's basic Shard abilities. I especially agree with @nyahahaha on the ratio of active and passive Familiars and the separate Magic bar for them. I really like the "Homunculi" name idea from Scars Unseen . It seems like a more fitting name for them, given the story of Bloodstained and the basis of Miriam's magical abilities. (EDIT): lol, I seem to really like making Miriam's name stand out.
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Pure Miriam
Legendary Comrade
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Post by Pure Miriam on Oct 14, 2016 18:05:17 GMT -6
Galamoth yeah, i forgot that! But yeah, that doesn't work for Bloodstained, i think.
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Post by Galamoth on Oct 14, 2016 19:21:11 GMT -6
Galamoth yeah, i forgot that! But yeah, that doesn't work for Bloodstained, i think. I mean, it wouldn't work in the sense that Familiars may not simply be Shard powers. However, I'd still like to see Familiars be able to add onto the effects of certain Shards that Miriam can use, similarly to DoS's Soul Combinations.
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Post by Rigel on Nov 5, 2016 19:02:52 GMT -6
The system of SotN but this time the familiars should move faster in combat and with a lot more accuracy.
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Post by exalt9 on Dec 26, 2016 13:54:29 GMT -6
Are Familiars in Castlevania analogous to Espers in Final Fantasy VI?
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Galamoth
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Post by Galamoth on Dec 26, 2016 17:51:02 GMT -6
Are Familiars in Castlevania analogous to Espers in Final Fantasy VI? In that Familiars in certain Castlevania games (mainly SotN and Curse of Darkness) can actually enhance your character's stats? Perhaps.
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Post by Enkeria on Dec 26, 2016 18:57:24 GMT -6
Finding familiars (Homunculus) would be part of the whole journey from start to finish. You need all of them to get across the map. My idea of these are not only for show, but to actually aid us getting deeper into the Castle. All of them will be needed! DevilA red devil having a chaotic pattern across the screen. Small enough to be in Miriam's lap when she sits.
Passive Skill: Releases fireballs at enemies at random, doing fire-damage. Active Skill: Puts a circle of fire around you, which does fire-damage to enemies, bosses and walls of ice. AngelSmall angel that mostly fly above and around your head, visible only to Miriam. Might be a long forgotten sister.
Passive Skill: At death, she will give you replenished health if you have an alchemist stone (another item needed) Cool-down until next heal: 45 seconds. Active Skill: Make you featherlight in falling unless you deactivate the skill, which will be needed to enter some areas. GnomeTiny, fuzzy, round dwarven-like creature that digs below your feet. Pops up when you need him.
Passive Skill: Can find hidden secrets within walls, crates, vases, pillars and such. Passive Skill 2: If you have become stone (or frozen by ice) the Gnome will release you instantly from the imprisonment. Cool-down until next release: 20 seconds, so you can't spam it. Death / Dark VesselAn object which seems to hover in a perfect alignment. Could be made out of some pure dark energy. Looks like black glass.
Passive Skill: If frozen (by time) the Dark Vessel will release you instantly from the imprisonment. You also become immune to void and black magical attacks (enemies, not bosses). Active Skill: Stops time for x seconds, and during this you are able to actually cross some areas where time is corrupted. Bosses will not be affected by it, nor some enemies. Templar KnightAre next to you, but got no visible legs. Could be that he is a descendant from Sleipner, the 8 legged horse.
Passive Skill: A follower that attacks when you attack right beside you, adding bonus damage to enemies as physical. Active Skill: Charge in a straight path if activated, can break stone walls if stone walls have a path leading up to them. Sylph (Spirit) Resembles a blue semi-transparent fairy that are very quiet in nature. The wings leaves blue particles after her. Passive Skill: Floating around in own pattern, doing spectral / cold damage to enemies that are standing still for at least 2 seconds. Active Skill: You stay in vulnerable trance and control the spirit to bring objects to you. Can go through walls, but can't bring objects through them, only across bars, steep ledges and such. Will nullify if enter another room or area without reach. GoofballNeeds no introduction, we all know this one!
Passive Skill: Floats around Miriam like a loveable puppy with heart emotes coming out of him. Makes invisible traps and monsters visible. Active Skill: Can also hit buttons that might need to be pressed. GolemFace attached into the torso of the Golem itself with eyes and a stone smile. Makes the beholder slow. Loves Rock 'n' Roll.
Passive Skill: Can protect you from wall/floorspikes (always active) since he is a part of your armor, neck down. Passive Skill 2: No knockback animation can be applied on Miriam while having Golem attached. Miriam can't jump very high. UndineA mermaid, blue/green with red deep eyes. Have only been spotted by a few Sailors during her journeys in the ocean.
Passive Skill: Lets you breath underwater and jog at a normal speed. Undine swims along your side, as an companion. Active Skill: Only on land - Holy Rain!!!11 She doesn't like land, so we do only hear her. Holy Rain can only be triggered 50% of the time, other times she just ain't happy and tell you so. Annoyed perhaps that she feels you are just using her! lewlz. Cool-down to use these, or by ether? Arcanian A short figure with pointy hat and robes. Revealing only glowing eyes and hands while putting out spells. Does often say "hmm".
Passive Skill: At every teleportation-room (?) you gain restored health and alchemy "magic", at a cost of some XP. Passive Skill 2: Unlocks magical sealed Doors (like some boss rooms). IGAFinish the game with Miriam (no matter which ending you get) at least once to get this familiar. Iga is himself, with a black tunic and cape.
Passive Skill: Uses a special swordwhip to damage enemies at random. Active Skill: Will reveal a hidden boss room, if triggered at a special location, once entered. This familiar transforms into IGA the Hidden Boss. If defeated - Swordwhip is yours together with IGA as a familiar, and IGA replace his weapon with a legendary vampire-slayer whip. If defeated as a non backer -or- a second time, you get the vampire-slayer whip. Now you can both hunt Vampires together!
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Post by exile on Dec 27, 2016 23:30:43 GMT -6
However they choose to implement them, I'd enjoy two features, as follow:
1. I hope the "familiars" modify the gameplay somewhat by passive/active abilities, in a similar way to how certain items in the Diablo series change your character's skills. An easy example (and not a particularly creative one) would be something like
**Vampire Bat Familiar** *Active: Attacks enemies once every 10 seconds for 10 damage. *Passive: 1% of your damage dealt is regained as health.
2. I hope "familiars" feature an upgrade system, preferably through use instead of through collectible "XP" items.
Using the example above, it would allow for more effective skills, like
**Vampire Bat Familiar** *Active: Attacks enemies once every 10/9/8/7/5 seconds for 10/20/40/60/100 damage. *Passive: 1/2/3/4/5% of your damage dealt is regained as health.
Now just imagine all the other mechanical variables they could link to items. % chance to freeze/ignite/poison/stun enemies, %chance to critical hit, % chance to become temporarily immune, % chance to summon a demon
You could also get creative by allowing familiars to become more powerful (up to 50% max) for every enemy you kill, with each kill resetting the 5 second countdown.
Really, the options are limitless; it's really just a question of how integral they want familiars to be to the flow of combat. I, myself, hope they're something more than a novelty, but something less than mandatory. I'd like Miriam to remain the star of the show, with the familiars as a colorful and quirky support cast.
With this in mind, again I mention Diablo (3) in that its "followers" added a nice spice to gameplay without dominating. They accomplished this buy buffing the actual player's character. For instance, when the archer follower or the player character landed a critical hit, the damage of both would be increased for a short duration. That kind of mechanic is my favorite, and I'd love to see an iteration of it in Bloodstained.
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Post by Enkeria on Dec 28, 2016 10:56:08 GMT -6
My thoughts went to Diablo as well. Experience would be awesome. Less familiars would make it easier for the developers, but at the same time I really want them all to be ways to get deeper into the castle.
With experience and making them stronger, it really should just be a gain in numbers (attack, % or whatnot) and not something about "unlocking" a passive or something. That would make the game become a bit of a grind, just to unlock stuff. Instead, have it like you wrote, the skills already there, but become stronger over time.
But how would they gain experience? By you having them active? Or by you collecting things? Perhaps they would gain experience whenever you did and always be same level? I would like to see a combination of having them active, and collecting things, perhaps a boost to the familiar if gained duplicate of shards or something..
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