XombieMike
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Post by XombieMike on May 12, 2016 16:56:13 GMT -6
Exploration and secret rooms are very important parts of an IGAvania game. In the past we have found secret stuff as we smacked walls and got , crumbled walls, floors and ceilings to find new rooms, stopped time at a giant clock, hit cogs in the clock tower, pushed bookshelves and transformed in rock passages to access hidden places. Personally, I love things that are puzzle like with the cogs and time stop, like things as with pushing the book shelf, and wonder how anyone would know how to transform through the rock passage. What are some ways you would think are cool to access hidden rooms? Let me know and if I like your idea best I will reward your creativeness with King Arthur's Gold on Steam (if you want it). This was donated by an anonymous member. Don't expect your idea to be actually used in Bloodstained, and if your idea gets in the game by coincidence or inspiration then submitting your idea nullifies any intellectual property claims. The winner will purely be chosen by my opinion which will hopefully not disappoint everyone except the winner. I will leave this up until I have difficulty deciding deciding between a few. Art supporting your idea may butter up your opinion.
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BalancedHydra
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Post by BalancedHydra on May 12, 2016 17:31:45 GMT -6
Picture that you're in a underground room and in there lies the root of a tree . Say that you hit that root with a fire attack or weapon and lit it up. Back on the surface, the tree is burnt, leaving a passage/item that wasn't there before.
Or how about a body of water that you can freeze and walk on it to the other side.
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dragonkd
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Post by dragonkd on May 12, 2016 17:35:45 GMT -6
I always thought the rooms that had no actual wall were cool. for instance, the ones in the sewer area of circle of the moon. since we may be bringing back the mirror plane traversal like in dos, it will be fun to move into various rooms other than where the mirror exists. since IGAteam will have much more flexibility with UE4, I would also like to recommend this: moveable rooms. elevators or rotating rooms that exist in world space. for instance,
an entire section of a tower that can be slid up and down floating islands that can be moved with a mechanism somewhere blocking and changing the flow of water rotation. in the machine tower for instance you could rotate a set of rooms together, forming other paths. revisit the concept of inversion, and change gravity to a different direction in order to reach areas
also: FIRST ok, not first.
if we bring out of castle into play, moving ships rising/falling tide to allow access to islands of caves.
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XombieMike
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Post by XombieMike on May 12, 2016 18:03:18 GMT -6
Picture that you're in a underground room and in there lies the root of a tree . Say that you hit that root with a fire attack or weapon and lit it up. Back on the surface, the tree is burnt, leaving a passage/item that wasn't there before. Or how about a body of water that you can freeze and walk on it to the other side. Why hit the root if you could just hit the tree? I like the idea except for that. The water freeze is very Shadowgate, which is cool. I always thought the rooms that had no actual wall were cool. for instance, the ones in the sewer area of circle of the moon. since we may be bringing back the mirror plane traversal like in dos, it will be fun to move into various rooms other than where the mirror exists. since IGAteam will have much more flexibility with UE4, I would also like to recommend this: moveable rooms. elevators or rotating rooms that exist in world space. for instance,
an entire section of a tower that can be slid up and down floating islands that can be moved with a mechanism somewhere blocking and changing the flow of water rotation. in the machine tower for instance you could rotate a set of rooms together, forming other paths. revisit the concept of inversion, and change gravity to a different direction in order to reach areas
also: FIRST ok, not first.
if we bring out of castle into play, moving ships rising/falling tide to allow access to islands of caves.
This all has me thinking pretty deeply about what kind of puzzles fit in Bloodstained. Something involved like this isn't as subtle as things like hitting the cogs. Sometimes you can do something in an IGAvania that doesn't seem to do anything. Like the ferryman through the glass and the piano keys that you jump on that to this day I swear should open a secret that I don't know how to solve. The things you are talking about sound cool, but I think it makes it more of a puzzle game than we have previously seen in IGA's games. I'd be curious to hear what others think of this.
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BalancedHydra
Pillow Weapon Advocate
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Post by BalancedHydra on May 12, 2016 18:12:44 GMT -6
How about a shovel weapon that drops from a certain enemy type. The shovel will do crap damage and is more of a joke weapon but even joke weapons can have their impact in-game. So you shovel a suspicious wall of dirt that leads to a hidden room. In that room lies a message. "Congratulations. You read this message for no apparent reason." <insert troll face here>.
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XombieMike
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Post by XombieMike on May 12, 2016 18:16:23 GMT -6
How about a shovel weapon that drops from a certain enemy type. The shovel will do crap damage and is more of a joke weapon but even joke weapons can have their impact in-game. So you shovel a suspicious wall of dirt that leads to a hidden room. In that room lies a message. "Congratulations. You read this message for no apparent reason." <insert troll face here>. This could be Shovel Knight related.
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JeffCross
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Post by JeffCross on May 12, 2016 18:52:49 GMT -6
How about a one eyed (or a no eyed) ghost familiar, that holds a candle light or lantern (there should be some willow o the wisps surrounding the light)... now this familiar should follow the player, when they reach a breakable wall, the willow o the wisps should float around the area, if the wall is not breakable the ghost should go to it and point at it.
I also think the familiar should reveal invisible enemies (it should take one time for each enemy... once an enemy is "revealed" the player should be able to see it anytime, though without the familiar it should be ghostly and see through).
Oh and one more thing, if there is such thing as leveling up familiars, the higher it's level the farther it can detect a hidden wall.
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lai
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Post by lai on May 12, 2016 19:09:32 GMT -6
The idea I've always entertained myself with was the idea of a complete joke item found at the beginning of the game (given a mundane name like "ordinary rock" or "waste of space") that when equipped reveals a secret room in the endgame area with a semi-game-breaking weapon or equipment. Of course you could always find the door without it but it would look like an standard wall with nothing making it stand out as a door.
For bonus evil points make said item have a decent sell value for when you find it in-game makes it useful for speedruns too.
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Post by qaantar on May 12, 2016 19:21:26 GMT -6
I would be partial to a music-based puzzle that opens a locked room. For example, striking bells in the right sequence to play a tune (such as one of the Bloodstained melodies) or a word (classic use of this: original Scooby Doo and the "FEED" puzzle on the organ to open a passage).
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Post by darkmetamorphosis on May 12, 2016 20:12:44 GMT -6
My favorite secrets are those that look like a normal obvious secret room, contain a somewhat common hidden item, but if you look hard enough, there's something much better or more secretive inside.
How about wall/floor/ceiling that will only break when hit with a specific weapon or spell? There would be an ever so slight hint. Perhaps the wall is glowing slightly red looking like molten rock. You hit it with an ice spell and then you have to hit it with an ice infused weapon and bam! You can break through.
Inside this hidden door would then be a full hidden area of 10-15 rooms and perhaps contain a specific rare super hard enemy in that area or an extremely hard hidden boss that would yield a really cool item.
I also like when some of these hidden areas trigger events with NPCs as a sort of thank you for discovering it.
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Vampire
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Post by Vampire on May 12, 2016 20:41:19 GMT -6
I had an idea for a chimera boss battle,so I guess you could consider the secret boss room a secret room? Anyways for the idea in a monster lab,you would have to gather a lions head, a goats head, a dragons head, and a serpents tail,all of which can be dropped from enemies within the dungeon area,now since alchemy is a thing in this game,miriam would do a little hocus pocus in a lab center aka a pentagram or transmutation circle,and the pieces would fall into place causing a monster to be born from some various magic explosions,the beast would fly off and a previously unaccessable area ...lets say a failed specimen dumping pit would become available,and from there you could battle the chimera as a boss battle which drops a powerful piece of armor and headgear
However after you kill the chimera's second form,it will speak in human language and warn that actions such as hers are the reason man is foolish since their curiosity at the creation of life and playing god to seek knowledge will be ultimately them creating a mistake a being that will one day cast a world in infinite darkness
So basically finding this secret room you earn: -A boss battle -An armor and headpiece -A Dialogue from the monster once defeated that touches upon the ideals of the risks involved with alchemy and mans desire to seek forbidden knowledge
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Zechs
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Post by Zechs on May 12, 2016 22:18:56 GMT -6
I liked the minor way Capcom approached this in MegaMan [7, X, X2, X3] in that the game only briefs you on a few things that work in the world.
Like MM7, use ice weapon to freeze streams of magma. On floor is a passageway, when pouring, it will crumble and offer way to a small secret room.
Or use flame weapon and burn part of a forest to gain access to a ladder.
X was kinda basic with areas either blocked with breakable blocks or were not really there.
X3 had a few. One using electric weapon charge ability and breaking some object to gain passage. Or skipping on water to reach otherwise unreachable places.
I would not mind if Miriam could use specific weapons in specific locations to find hidden rooms. A step up from just attacking a wall, ceiling or floor. But using, say, a flame weapon in a cold area to melt some ice. Or glass in a workshop, worship area. Or ice weapon and freeze some water to walk across or freeze a downpour to then break for access. But since element wise, access would be timed as ice would crumble. But this has essentially been mentioned above already.
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Post by qaantar on May 13, 2016 7:38:49 GMT -6
Aside from the musical idea, here's another one that sort of combines some of the other ideas:
Have 4 braziers on top of the castle (perhaps in towers, or some other locations; preferably exterior; any number will do). The player must ignite the braziers by casting different spells (or if weapons are elementally aligned, by attacking the brazier). Igniting all of them will then open a sealed door.
The braziers can be obvious (like on a pedestal as the only thing in the room; boss guarded or not), or can just be part of the background and not immediately obvious that they can be interacted with.
Further, the sealed chamber can be obvious (placards that illuminate when the corresponding brazier is lit; and perhaps even hints to the locations) or it can also be more subtly hidden into the background.
Presumably a door sealed in such an intricate way either holds a powerful object, a powerful monster, or both.
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Astaroth
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Post by Astaroth on May 13, 2016 10:48:34 GMT -6
lol, reminds me of plant 42
theres so many secrets id wanna pack into a game if i ever made one with a mansion/castle, but one that i think would be epic if done right would actually involve the player, the character comes across a notebook with a slew of notes on different subjects that tie into the plot of the game and they reference real world books, and its up to the player to find these books to decode the mysteries in the journal, and some of them are riddles and codes that lead to secret areas or items, others give insight into the writer of the journal and end up raising more questions about the world youre exploring and whats going on, the side effect is maybe the player is interested enough to read the whole book, it would probably work best in a horror or vr styled game, so the slower pace of exploration would mesh better with the research done outside the game, downside is people will likely gamefaqs the answer and then call it stupid cause it wasnt presented as a 'the answer is x' note sitting on the desk next to the secret -_-
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purifyweirdshard
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Post by purifyweirdshard on May 13, 2016 12:04:28 GMT -6
haha yeah, Plant 42. "Will you take the CHEMICAL?" That real-world book reading could belong in the genre of alchemy/science at the time. There might be an actual recipe for an in-game item derived that way...it does sound pretty Igarashi-y (Igarashiee?) to me. lai , to add on to that idea of "inconsequential item that ends up being important", I think that it'd be cool if such items were the results of failed crafting attempts. If there are varying success rates in the crafting system, I imagine one possible result could be some kind of a "junk" item that when used with something later-game allows something useful. There have been some posts on things like this before, so it's hard to come up with something completely new...but one idea is that there could be something in the prequel mini-game that is very subtly hinted as being a secret, but it's not until later in the full game of Bloodstained that you can access it. Say for example...there's a cutscene early in the prequel where Miriam, Johannes and Gebel are hanging out. A gift, badge, memento or some other kind of icon of membership to the alchemist's guild had just been given to Johannes/Gebel and they're explaining what it means to be inducted, etc, and offhand mention that the substance of the item itself has a chemical property to change its appearance when submerged in water. Later on in story scenes, in disgust or frustration with the guild (or one of the friends with another friend), Gebel (or Johannes) casts away this item unceremoniously towards a body of water that could vaguely resemble the castle moat. This area isn't explorable in that game, but can be accessed later once the player gets whatever the water traversal ability is in the main game. Down there, the item from the story is just a rock. The only rock down there, so it kind of sticks out/doesn't fit in a way, but regardless appears to be like another bit of the scenery that can be hit, knocked around or carried (think a Yorick head). If the player realizes that this one rock could be what that one thing form the prequel changed into, after they go through the work of knocking it out of the pond, it reverts in the sunlight back to the original item. Having this could itself grant entry into some kind of secret guild area, or used for equipping/crafting. You could even re-present it to Gebel or Johannes later to have them say/give you something else, or throw it back in the water lol.
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Post by demiurgos on May 14, 2016 9:14:15 GMT -6
As already mentioned, a secret pathway/room that require a musical code of some sorts to reveal itself would be pretty kewl. Any variation of the tritonus would probably go well with the overall gothic/horror theme.
I'd love for Miriam to sacrifice a set (and pretty high) amount of HP to open up a secret location. It could be an altar of sorts, where she willingly could drain herself of her life force (whatever this will turn out to be). If Miriam's level (HP) is too low, she'll simply die. If strong enough, the secret would reveal itself.
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Ryngar Acia
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Post by Ryngar Acia on May 14, 2016 14:49:36 GMT -6
Maybe in a certain area of the castle there'd be a strange little kind of monster that won't really try to attack Mirriam, and also can't be damaged by any attacks you try to use on it. However, if you position Mirriam close to the monster, and use "Winestained", it will catch the glass, drink the wine, and scamper off to another room in the same area (of the castle). When you find creature again, do the exact same thing as before and it will happily dance around the room and trigger a switch that will open up a secret room. TL;DR: Get a monster drunk, so it will reveal a secret room for you.
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XombieMike
Administrator
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Post by XombieMike on May 14, 2016 17:20:52 GMT -6
Maybe in a certain area of the castle there'd be a strange little kind of monster that won't really try to attack Mirriam, and also can't be damaged by any attacks you try to use on it. However, if you position Mirriam close to the monster, and use "Winestained", it will catch the glass, drink the wine, and scamper off to another room in the same area (of the castle). When you find creature again, do the exact same thing as before and it will happily dance around the room and trigger a switch that will open up a secret room. TL;DR: Get a monster drunk, so it will reveal a secret room for you. I kinda love this.
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Post by Goobsausage on May 14, 2016 21:58:31 GMT -6
Let's say Bloodstained has a giant boss monster. After the battle, its corpse falls over and a door to a new area unlocks. If players share the same train of thought I do, chances are they'll just walk through that door. But if they either feel brave or feel like goofing off, the player can walk into the fallen boss' anus. The secret room is a boss's butthole. The player can collect some HP/MP increasing items, weapons, and armor the boss supposedly ate, but didn't poop out. None of it would be too dirty or gross though, video games don't have to be 100% realistic.
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Clear
Global Moderator
[TI0] お疲れ様でした、IGA!
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Post by Clear on May 14, 2016 22:57:07 GMT -6
^ After the boss battle, the corpse falls back and, if the last hit to the boss occurs when the boss is positioned within reasonably close proximity to the breakable wall, the velocity of the corpse counts as sufficient to destroy the wall and expose the secret room. And this particular method is the only way to break one of the handful or so of breakable walls within the game. Not by weapon strike, not by walk-through-wall ability or the like, only by defeating a particular boss AND landing the last hit while the boss is positioned on the screen within a given range from the wall. Both conditions must be met in a logical sense. Seems a bit restricted, sure, but it's an idea nonetheless.
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