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Post by crocodile on Apr 14, 2016 17:01:52 GMT -6
Well I'm not in a position of hoping to be "rescued" so to speak because I don't even know who the playable cast will be yet. If we only knew of Miriam, Johannes and Gebel, knew there were going to be three playable characters, didn't know Zangetsu was on deck and had no inclination that more characters were on the way then yeah I guess I might be apprehensive or saying "I REALLY hope there are other potential playable characters yet to be revealed". That's not the situation we are in right now. Of the tiny cast we have now, assuming no more playable characters were revealed, I would think the playable cast would be Miriam, Gebel and Zangetsu. Again though, that's all assumptions. At this point, I kind of just want more of the cast to be revealed. I do want more options and there are personalities/archetypes (either in a narrative role or playable role) not represented so far that I think would be good to see but really I'm also just kind of tired of speculating (who is playable? who isn't? what narrative role might character X have?) because we are doing so totally in the dark - we have too little info to make informed speculation. Mana ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ give new characters! I think you have something against Johannes. Not crazy about the design? I'm the same. I would prefer to play as someone different than him as well but hey...maybe he will be cool in the game. You don't need to "think", I'm straight up telling you I'm more than willing to keep an open mind and be pleasantly surprised though. I'm merely expressing a preference right now.
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Post by CastleDan on Apr 14, 2016 18:05:13 GMT -6
I think you have something against Johannes. Not crazy about the design? I'm the same. I would prefer to play as someone different than him as well but hey...maybe he will be cool in the game. You don't need to "think", I'm straight up telling you I'm more than willing to keep an open mind and be pleasantly surprised though. I'm merely expressing a preference right now. Yeah, I'm not crazy about him either. I think he does look a bit too bookish to be brandishing a whip He almost looks....too modern day? Do you see that too?
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Post by dimlitcandle on Apr 14, 2016 19:57:50 GMT -6
No love for Johannes? Seriously, guys? (There is not a character I have disliked yet from this series). He reminds me of a mixture of Jonathan from Portrait of Ruin and Albus from Order of Ecclesia. But I'm with my buddy purifyweirdshard, he's hiding something from ussss... I wouldn't be surprised if he is fooling us in a big sort of way. He's definitely not showing his true colors. He could pull an Arikado, or something much more surprising. But you know who else he reminds me of? Jonathan Harker. *Spoiler warning for the Dracula novel* Jonathan Harker. Crouching dork, hidden bad-a. Meek and stressed, bookish and chatty solicitor--- but a certain Count hurts someone he loves, and he stalks the streets of Europe at night with kukri knives seeking the blood of the well-known Count...eventually chopping off the count's head. They have similar names, no? But anyway...looking forward to play as him (if possible) and especially as Zangetsu (if he's also a candidate).
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Post by Astaroth on Apr 16, 2016 13:36:56 GMT -6
well, johannes could be a retired hunter, the sort that relied way more on brains than brawn, and got hurt on a mission or experienced something that made him go 'fuckit! im out!' but didnt want to abandon those he felt a need to protect like the orphans, theres a lot of depth that could be hiding behing that bookish exterior, but since hes not the type to wear a loincloth and go bashing down doors his epicness is way more understated and will have to be told in pieces through story rather than up front through his clothing
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Post by Maker on Apr 19, 2016 10:09:16 GMT -6
If that does turn out to be the case with his story it'd be pretty cool if his gameplay mirrored that. I'd imagine he'd have lower health than Miriam and especially Zan. But have a very robust set of tricks.
Story wise I don't expect him to be hardcore like Julius or the belmonts in general. Though that scholastic approach is often its own kind of badass if done right.
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Post by BloodyTears92 on Apr 20, 2016 23:11:32 GMT -6
If I remember right, didn't IGA mention he was thinking of adding 3 more characters in addition to Miriam, Johannes and Gebel? Zengetsu is one of them, so if he stuck to that we have at least 2 other characters. Pretty sure Zangetsu is the 2nd of our 3 playable characters, so that really leaves the third. Between the two we have I'd wager on a Gebel mode over Johannes, but I wouldn't be surprised if our final playable was someone we haven't met yet either.
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Post by Galamoth on Apr 21, 2016 8:14:56 GMT -6
I'm honestly still of the opinion that if Gebel becomes "playable", he'll only really be playable in Boss Revenge Mode.
We are assuming that Gebel has become the main antagonist (considering his description on the Kickstarter page), right? So I'd say he's not going to be playable to the same extent as Miriam and [possibly] Zangetsu.
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Post by Astaroth on Apr 22, 2016 21:03:56 GMT -6
i wonder if part of the asynch multi will involve players playing the revenge mode getting matched with people playing rogue or boss rush?
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Post by Wally on Jun 24, 2016 22:22:44 GMT -6
I hope the other playable characters are fully fledged. In the past Igavania games, the extra characters lacked a menu screen that showed their stats, equipment, portrait, elemental resistances, familiars, etc. It made leveling up and playing through the game feel less in-depth and bland at times. A big reason for this was due to time constraints as these games were coming out yearly at some point.
It seems like Bloodstained is taking its time (in a good way) and I hope that means these extra characters will have multiple weapons to equip (probably not to the same extent as Mririam, but if Zengestu uses swords for example, maybe he can equip the same swords Miriam finds throughout her adventure in the same treasue cheests). This will really increase the game's replay value in my opinion.
I also hope that one of the playable characters is a mage oriented character like Charlotte from Portrait of Ruin. If Zengestu is indeed a playable character, that means we already have a close rage, melee based character and helps if the third character has a unique and different play style from the others.
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Post by ChucklesTheJester on Jun 25, 2016 3:44:33 GMT -6
At this point, the three main playable characters are most likely to be Miriam, Zangetsu, and Johannes, even though I'm still really, REALLY hoping that it's Miriam, Zangetsu, and Gebel. Gebel will definitely be playable in boss revenge, but I just kind of wanted him to be one of the big three you can play through the main game with.
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Post by Shax on Jun 25, 2016 6:40:52 GMT -6
It seems like Miriam (obviously) and Zangetsu will be playable. I'm not entirely sold on Johannes being playable, but Gebel will be playable in Boss Revenge Mode. I think there might be one more character inside that castle or at least traveling to it. That is just what I think though.
Zangetsu seems to me that he would be stronger (physically) than Miriam but, as someone said, not nearly as mobile. The mechanics around his Ofuda should be interesting since they aren't the same as shards. Considering his backstory, he might actually end up being a boss in the game. He seems to have little tolerance for alchemists, which includes Miriam and Johannes.
I do hope that the characters have more depth to them and when you play as them the story shifts to tell it from their perspective.
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Post by Galamoth on Jun 25, 2016 9:40:43 GMT -6
It seems like Miriam (obviously) and Zangetsu will be playable. I'm not entirely sold on Johannes being playable, but Gebel will be playable in Boss Revenge Mode. I think there might be one more character inside that castle or at least traveling to it. That is just what I think though. Zangetsu seems to me that he would be stronger (physically) than Miriam but, as someone said, not nearly as mobile. The mechanics around his Ofuda should be interesting since they aren't the same as shards. Considering his backstory, he might actually end up being a boss in the game. He seems to have little tolerance for alchemists, which includes Miriam and Johannes. I do hope that the characters have more depth to them and when you play as them the story shifts to tell it from their perspective. Well, as far as the Kickstarter campaign is concerned, we will in-fact be getting a total of 3 playable characters. I'm still convinced of the likelihood of Zangetsu being the 2nd playable character (and hopefully being more than just a "Bonus" character, having his own big role in the main campaign like Miriam with his own Character Menus, as opposed to simply pausing the game). Gebel is likely to be playable only in Boss Revenge Mode, as you say. If Zangetsu will indeed be the 2nd character, then all that's left to know is "Who will be the 3rd playable character?".
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Post by Shax on Jun 25, 2016 10:19:24 GMT -6
It seems like Miriam (obviously) and Zangetsu will be playable. I'm not entirely sold on Johannes being playable, but Gebel will be playable in Boss Revenge Mode. I think there might be one more character inside that castle or at least traveling to it. That is just what I think though. Zangetsu seems to me that he would be stronger (physically) than Miriam but, as someone said, not nearly as mobile. The mechanics around his Ofuda should be interesting since they aren't the same as shards. Considering his backstory, he might actually end up being a boss in the game. He seems to have little tolerance for alchemists, which includes Miriam and Johannes. I do hope that the characters have more depth to them and when you play as them the story shifts to tell it from their perspective. Well, as far as the Kickstarter campaign is concerned, we will in-fact be getting a total of 3 playable characters. I'm still convinced of the likelihood of Zangetsu being the 2nd playable character (and hopefully being more than just a "Bonus" character, having his own big role in the main campaign like Miriam with his own Character Menus, as opposed to simply pausing the game). Gebel is likely to be playable only in Boss Revenge Mode, as you say. If Zangetsu will indeed be the 2nd character, then all that's left to know is "Who will be the 3rd playable character?". I guess they meant 3 for the campaign since if Boss Revenge Mode allows control over every boss, that is over 3. Agreed, Zangetsu seems almost too perfect not to be a second playable character. An interesting feature they could do, if he ends up being playable, are flashbacks. If I'm not mistaken Zangetsu has been hunting demons for while, so perhaps a few levels could be flashbacks to when he was younger. It gives him more "human" and more character. That is asking a lot but...you know. Is it possible for a demon to be playable as the 3rd character? A somewhat human-sized one of course or one that can change shapes. I remember Sitri, of the 72 Pillars, has the power to change into a human form. There are probably more that can do that though.
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Post by Galamoth on Jun 25, 2016 11:11:46 GMT -6
Well, as far as the Kickstarter campaign is concerned, we will in-fact be getting a total of 3 playable characters. I'm still convinced of the likelihood of Zangetsu being the 2nd playable character (and hopefully being more than just a "Bonus" character, having his own big role in the main campaign like Miriam with his own Character Menus, as opposed to simply pausing the game). Gebel is likely to be playable only in Boss Revenge Mode, as you say. If Zangetsu will indeed be the 2nd character, then all that's left to know is "Who will be the 3rd playable character?". I guess they meant 3 for the campaign since if Boss Revenge Mode allows control over every boss, that is over 3. Agreed, Zangetsu seems almost too perfect not to be a second playable character. An interesting feature they could do, if he ends up being playable, are flashbacks. If I'm not mistaken Zangetsu has been hunting demons for while, so perhaps a few levels could be flashbacks to when he was younger. It gives him more "human" and more character. That is asking a lot but...you know. Is it possible for a demon to be playable as the 3rd character? A somewhat human-sized one of course or one that can change shapes. I remember Sitri, of the 72 Pillars, has the power to change into a human form. There are probably more that can do that though.Ooh, one of the 72 Lesser Key Demons as a playable character? I like that idea! Many of these Dukes/Presidents of Hell have default animal-like forms, but can also change into a human form. Even fewer appear "human" by default (completely human, with no other part of their body resembling another animal). Paimon, Barbatos, Murmur, Gremory, Seere, and Dantalion are the only Demons with default "human" forms that I can think of, at the moment, without looking up the Lesser Key again. lol, Sitri has the power to cause people to love each other, and magically force them to strip naked. :3 (Maybe he'll cause such mischief for the playable characters, assuming he won't be playable himself.)
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Post by Shax on Jun 25, 2016 12:02:40 GMT -6
I guess they meant 3 for the campaign since if Boss Revenge Mode allows control over every boss, that is over 3. Agreed, Zangetsu seems almost too perfect not to be a second playable character. An interesting feature they could do, if he ends up being playable, are flashbacks. If I'm not mistaken Zangetsu has been hunting demons for while, so perhaps a few levels could be flashbacks to when he was younger. It gives him more "human" and more character. That is asking a lot but...you know. Is it possible for a demon to be playable as the 3rd character? A somewhat human-sized one of course or one that can change shapes. I remember Sitri, of the 72 Pillars, has the power to change into a human form. There are probably more that can do that though.Ooh, one of the 72 Lesser Key Demons as a playable character? I like that idea! Many of these Dukes/Presidents of Hell have default animal-like forms, but can also change into a human form. Even fewer appear "human" by default (completely human, with no other part of their body resembling another animal). Paimon, Barbatos, Murmur, Gremory, Seere, and Dantalion are the only Demons with default "human" forms that I can think of, at the moment, without looking up the Lesser Key again. lol, Sitri has the power to cause people to love each other, and magically force them to strip naked. :3 (Maybe he'll cause such mischief for the playable characters, assuming he won't be playable himself.) Glad you liked it. Hmm...I just checked myself and it seems like Gaap and Foras have "base" human forms as well. It also seems that most of them can take human shapes though. I suppose, any of them could end up being playable if they are in the actual game. It may depend on what you want them to be doing: ally with Miriam, focused on their goals, or wants to takes Gebel's place ("If you were to kill Mundus, who would take his place?") Seere might actually be an interesting playable character. He isn't evil and his power allows him to go anywhere on Earth. If he were a playable character, perhaps he is able to "blink" to places or phase through certain objects and terrain. Seere might make for an interesting boss fight as well, changing to environment to increasingly more dangerous ones as his health goes down. Sitiri can do that? He must keep busy then. The causing mischief sounds like an idea.
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Post by LeoLeWolferoux on Jun 25, 2016 20:44:49 GMT -6
I kinda feel like Miriam, Gebel, and Johannes will be the playable characters. I can't see the latter two being any less than unlockable ones, unfortunately
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Post by dareka on Jun 25, 2016 23:15:46 GMT -6
My two cents... I think it's we'll get Zangetsu and Gebel as playable characters. Zangetsu's design is far too refined, his backstory too fleshed out, his game mechanics too intricate for a character who's just going to appear in a retro-style pixel-based prequel mini-game. Plus, there's this... " 3RD PLAYABLE CHARACTER: IGA and Inti Creates will include a third playable character in Bloodstained! They don't want to give away too much—it might even be a character you haven't met yet." Remember that at this point, Zangetsu hadn't yet been designed, let alone revealed? As for Gebel... well, going by IGA's past work, I get the feeling he's not going to be the end villain - not the real one, anyway. I mean, Symphony of the Night, Harmony of Dissonance, Order of Ecclesia and even Lament of Innocence, in a way, all had similar twists. From the setup, Bloodstained is looking like a mix of Harmany of Dissonance and Order of Ecclesia...
And yes, I also get from Johannes more of an closet evil mastermind vibe than anything else. Again, the characters' background as friends is too central to the setup to not have any twists, and Gebel being the "bad guy" while Johannes is "the good guy" is just too straight forward. I can definitely see a Gebel mode where, free from the curse, he picks up Johannes' whip to save/stop a demonized Miriam ( think Julius Mode in Dawn of Sorrow ).
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Post by ChucklesTheJester on Jun 26, 2016 3:41:56 GMT -6
I can definitely see a Gebel mode where, free from the curse, he picks up Johannes' whip to save/stop a demonized Miriam ( think Julius Mode in Dawn of Sorrow ). I'd absolutely love that, although I'd like it if the other playable characters (especially Gebel) had their own full-on character customization screen with a wide variety of equipment. I wanna change Gebel's cape, dammit. That'd be a first one in the series, wouldn't it?
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jun 26, 2016 13:58:39 GMT -6
I can definitely see a Gebel mode where, free from the curse, he picks up Johannes' whip to save/stop a demonized Miriam ( think Julius Mode in Dawn of Sorrow ). I'd absolutely love that, although I'd like it if the other playable characters (especially Gebel) had their own full-on character customization screen with a wide variety of equipment. I wanna change Gebel's cape, dammit. That'd be a first one in the series, wouldn't it? That's a really nice take on playable Gebel, dareka. Regardless of whether it's Johannes or Gebel, I want a whip-centric character indeed. And yeah, Chuckles, that would be a first - in so much as a "Belmont" that has any sort of customization, unless you count different whips for Nathan/slight differences for Juste. His character model didn't change otherwise.
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Post by LeoLeWolferoux on Jun 27, 2016 15:59:50 GMT -6
Sooo...most of us can agree that Gebel will proooobably be the 2nd playable character. I mean it would just make sense, he has the same curse that Miriam has, so I'm sure that he would probably function similarly to Miriam gameplay wise. (Absorbing the shards of enemies, gaining their abilities) So this is my prediction on how Gebel is gunna be incorporated into the story, as a character.
eDiT: (06/27/2016, 5:58 PM [Central]) I will probably do a Zangehtsu Character Discussion at some point, as he is a popular figure for the role. Definitely leave your ideas for how you think Zangehtsu will be incorporated, and his relation to Miriam, all ideas are welcome. :p
*Unlocking Gebel.
I'm sure this is a no-brainer. Unlocking Gebel will probably just require beating the game once with the 'Neutral' or 'Good' ending, thus unlocking Gebel as a 'playable' character.
*Gebel, Miriam, and the castle.
So you start out as Miriam, an orphan that has been inflicted with a curse due to her progressive study of it in the Alchemist's Guild that she, Gebel, and Johannes have all secretly studied at. After discussing with Johannes possible courses of action, (And after Gebel has left to pursue his own agenda) you agree that finding Gebel and discussing whatever means you can come up with for treating the crystal curse becomes the #1 priority of the guild. So you leave everything behind, and go on your way to hunt down Gebel.
The first area that you start on is a ship (the Galleon Minerva) that is taking you to Gebel's castle, so that you can talk some sense into the man, and work together to try to find a cure or treatment for the Crystal Curse. You will meet Gebel several times throughout the castle, and each time that you attempt to recruit him and bring him back home, he refuses, and as the game progresses, slowly becomes more hostile towards Miriam. You work your way throughout the castle, presumably in an arc, starting from the west side of the castle, (ENTRANCE) and working your way southeast, then northeast, northwest, west, and finally southwest, where you will end up presumably back at the castle entrance, but now have new ability (Shards) that will allow you to proceed towards the center of the castle where Gebel resides. After all this, you meet Gebel at the final part of the castle, (We'll call this the area of the castle the FINAL GAMBIT for now, I'll discuss why shortly) and after failing to talk some sense into the man, you inevitably end up fighting Gebel, in a very climactic, paralleled battle. (Miriam and her crystal powers, VS Gebel and his crystal powers, much like in SotN where you battle Dracula as Alucard. Thinking about it gives me chills. :D )
After the battle, depending on what actions you took during the course of the storyline (I'm guessing there'll be some determining factors, such as MAP %, possible items, [similar to Mina's Talisman from DoS] certain combinations of shards, ETC.) will determine ultimately what ending you get. If you get the BAD ending, Gebel refuses to leave with you, you do NOT unlock Gebel, and will start at a save point BEFORE whatever event you incorrectly choose something in, and will have another go at 'correcting' said mistake. (Perhaps there will be dialogue options in this, and you will have to say the correct line to Gebel??? This is where the MAP % idea comes in from when determining what ending you get, as going into the correct areas of the castle will allow you to learn more about Gebel, and gain insight into his mindset) If you get the NEUTRAL ending, you defeat Gebel, he agrees to come home with you, but other than that, the rest of the castle's mysteries still remain largely unknown to the character. If you get the GOOD ending (Or best possible ending) you will continue the storyline further, teaming up with Gebel, to defeat a currently unknown enemy, who's secretly pulling the strings behind even Gebel's eyes. You will defeat this final enemy, beat the game, and unlock Gebel as a character.
(Also this is the reason I named the final part of the castle the FINAL GAMBIT, as your choices throughout the story will now either aid you here, [final part of the castle when confronting Gebel] or they will hurt you) :p
*Playing as Gebel, and castle correlation.
When you start a 'new game' with Gebel, I believe that you will start in the FINAL GAMBIT area of the castle. You will learn from one of your trusty servants (A parallel to Death, perhaps?) That Miriam has come to the castle, and you will, in your delusional state, be delighted that she's come to join you. You will set off on your journey to pursue her, however in this version you will not encounter Miriam several times. As she explores and defeats Boss monsters, you will come across these Boss monsters, have to re-fight them, (Perhaps to regain their trust in you as the lord of the castle???) and learn that you narrowly miss finding Miriam, several times throughout your Gebel playthrough. Eventually, as you defeat all of the previous Boss monsters, and come to the realization that there is but one place left that Miriam could be, (The FINAL GAMBIT area of the game) Gebel becomes outraged, wondering why Miriam has come, has slain his faithful servants, and moreover what she wants from him. You will inevitably reach the last area of the game, and the final battle will still ensue, though obviously the difference in this playthrough being that you are controlling Gebel, and rather fighting Miriam. After the battle, you learn why Miriam is here, and agree that her intentions are not dishonest, and agree to leave with her. You leave the castle, Miriam by your side, and go home.
*Features of Playing as Gebel.
-You will start in the center of the castle rather than the Galleon Minerva.
-The Galleon Minerva will likely be an area of the game NOT accessible to Gebel, being as the ship will likely be gone by the time you get to that point. (West side of the castle)
-As you start in the center of the castle, will start off with VERY powerful equipment, to make up for lack of being able to deal with the stronger enemies you would normally find at this point in the story, much like Alucard's starting equipment in SotN.
-The Shard System will be fully available and at your disposal when playing as Gebel
-You will likely start with several ability Shards, to increase Gebel's mobility and allow you to get to any area of his castle with little interference.
...and yeah. That is my prediction on Gebel, and how you will assume his role in Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night. Lemme know what you guys think, and also this is my first prediction thread, so please be merciful! (I'm terrible with peer pressure. :P)
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